North County San Diego estimates for new install

[Alisobob]

The idea that a super low S.P. price, while tempting, may well also serve as an excuse by the installer to cut a few corners they might not otherwise be cut., It's more than about low buck - its about most bang for the buck.

Yup

X2

[J.P.M.]

One other small, anecdotal item: Alisobob and I have different systems. His is LG at ~ $3.50/Watt (as I recall). Mine is Sunpower for a lot of reasons that are not germane to this thread. I paid $4.50/Watt. My system's about a year older or so than Bob's.

The interesting part to all this is that, as best as I can call it, our outputs are about the same in terms of kWh/year or per month produced per installed nameplate kW. It's not exact, but what I'd call spookily close, particularly on uniformly clear So. CA days. Same for a lot of PVoutput stuff in San Diego, for similar orientations.

[Alisobob]

One other small, anecdotal item: Alisobob and I have different systems. His are LG at ~ $3.50/Watt (as I recall). Mine is Sunpower ...

FYI J.P.M... my panels are Solarworld

[SleepingDragon]

Bottom line for me: I'd still go for the LG, based on 2 things: The idea that a super low S.P. price, while tempting, may well also serve as an excuse by the installer to cut a few corners they might not otherwise be cut., It's more than about low buck - its about most bang for the buck. And second, I'm pretty sure I can find get an LG system for about $3.50/Watt around here and preserve quality.

I don't believe the lower price of SP has anything to do with cutting corners. From my understanding is that Sunpower already completed a lot of their larger scale utilities build out and finally able to supply more panels to the residential markets. This should start pushing SP prices lower for residential. I know LG is good bang for the buck like all their other stuff they sell, but why wouldn't the slight premium makes a proven panel maker with a long history and current highest efficiency a better buy?

[SleepingDragon]

FYI J.P.M... my panels are Solarworld

American made panels are built tough! They weigh more too... Personally I like them.

[J.P.M.]

FYI J.P.M... my panels are Solarworld

OOPS ! Sorry about that. My mistake/brain fart.

[J.P.M.]

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spammer !

[Ljr]

Thanks for the advice so far. PM request of contractor info is for anyone that would be willing to share. I can't PM yet.

I got additional quotes based on the belief that Sunpower panels would not be the most cost effective for us.

Here's what I've been given: (would be happy to repost of new thread if more appropriate than staying on this one)

Contractor 1:

20 LG 280S1C -B3 panels
Solar Edge SE5000A-US inverter

cost: $21,784

$3.89/watt

They use a quickmount system and Univac racking. Their claim is that the Tile-trac system of contractor 2 is not double flashed like theirs.

Contractor 1 feels we have shading issues based on a google map image that he is using from December. He did not use any other data, didn't look at or get on roof when presenting his quote. We were surprised at the shading assertion. Hadn't felt like it was an issue, but didn't dispute because of the google image.

Contractor 1 rep said that poly crystalline panels are inferior - that they are using the scrap/ leftover parts from mono crystalline panels. He said that Kyocera panels (quoted by contractor 2) are favored in commercial installations where the customer is primarily cost driven.

Contractor 1 initially quoted LG's 300A1C's panels (as well as Sunpower). I asked him to quote 280s since I couldn't find reviews of the newer panels and their cost was pretty high as well.



Contractor 2

22 Kyocera KD260GX-LFB2 panels
1 SMA America: SB-5000TL-US-22 (240V) inverter

Cost: $22,169

$3.88/watt

Contractor 2 Saw the google map image but says our shading issues are minimal (only coming into play at all in Dec and Jan). He went up on the roof with some sort of opti eye device and then showed us a computer image of what our shading issues would be year round (down to the time of day). His data showed that only during Dec and Jan would be when we'd have any shading and that would only be before 8 am and between 2-4 pm.

Contractor 2 disputes that his installation system doesn't double flash. He says double flashing is required by code/ permitting. They prefer not to affect the integrity of the s tiles as much as the installation method of contractor 1.

Contractor 2 feels poly crystalline panels are maybe less efficient, but still fine to use. Felt Kyocera was a quality panel.

Contractor 2 was much more of a fan of string inverters than contractor 1 (possibly because of #1's concern of shade).

Contractor 2 talked a lot about their Nabcep certification. Contractor 1 talked about their parent company's 75 year history, made no mention of Nabcep. Contractor 2 has no well established parent co., but has been doing solar longer than contractor 1. (both have over a 5 year history)

Contractor 2 didn't initially give me a quote using Sunpower panels. He did when asked, and they were within a few hundred dollars of contractor 1 based on same system.

Contractor 2 would take 1 month or maybe 2 longer to be able to start the job due to work load. Expects completion would be by August 1.



So the cost and production of both bids seem comparable. My main concern is the validity of their claims (installation style, poly vs. mono, shading issues).

Any advice/thoughts would be greatly appreciated. Thanks.

[carlsbad]

From my own experience, all the 10+ quotes that I had gotten from solar-only installers were higher (and in some cases significantly higher) than the quotes that I got from C-10 electrical contractors who install solar. FWIW.

[J.P.M.]

Are you sharing quoted information with the vendors ? Those prices are so close it's a good example of what happens when one vendor knows what the other is quoting.

FWIW: those $ #'s seem high for LG 280's unless something is in there besides just the system.

[Alisobob]

From my own experience, all the 10+ quotes that I had gotten from solar-only installers were higher (and in some cases significantly higher) than the quotes that I got from C-10 electrical contractors who install solar. FWIW.

X2

Bob

[thejq]

Contractor 1 rep said that poly crystalline panels are inferior - that they are using the scrap/ leftover parts from mono crystalline panels. He said that Kyocera panels (quoted by contractor 2) are favored in commercial installations where the customer is primarily cost driven.

Poly and mono are produced using different processes (not scraps from one to the other) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polycry...alline_silicon. Mono is harder to produce hence more expensive but more efficient in PV applications. It's more commonly used in residential where space is limited. Poly is cheaper, while less efficient, is more commonly used in commercial applications. I don't know any difference in terms of decay. So if you don't have space constraints, poly will get you the best value, but it has a blue tint that many people hate.

BTW the LG280W at $3.89/W still sounds expensive.

[Ljr]

Thanks everyone for all the feedback. Disappointing to hear that the prices are still out of line. Are they so out of the ballpark that they shouldn't be entertained at all? We've been told that the size of the job may be making our $/watt seem higher than others, but others here seem to be getting quotes on similarly sized projects.

We did tell the vendors what panels the other co was quoting, but not their prices. Even that may have been a mistake in retrospect.

Does anyone have any knowledge regarding the accuracy of the optic eye device reading to predict shade and if we shouldn't be concerned with the limited presence of shade as predicted? It would affect 2 of the panels during the winter hours referenced before (assuming reliable predictions).

Any thoughts on the two different install methods?

Some of theses non-price components of their approaches seem to speak to their overall knowledge and trustworthiness.

Sounds like we should get at least a couple more bids so PMs with recommendations would be great. These two companies are the only ones that I've been able to get personal referrals for so far.

Thanks again for any/all feedback.

[kylechoffman]

So I have gone around and around on this trying to work out using our Heloc but its not possible so I am left with the following options (I would appreciate input):

SD Metro 2.99 rate

Contract Price - $24633
Bank upfront fee - $3867
Rate - 2.99
Term - 12 years
30% credit - $8550
Sunpower F&F Credit - $3000
Re-amortized loan balance to pay off - $16950
Total cost over 8 years - 19079
I can pay this off in 8 years at $200 a month and only incur 2100 in interest costs over the life of the term. I cannot deduct the interest as its a secured loan against the equipment but should I need to move, I could pay it off in the sale of the home or move it with me.

HERO program

Contract Price - $24633
Bank upfront fee - $1324
Annual fees - $35
Rate - 7.69
Term - 10 years
30% credit - $7787
Sunpower F&F Credit - $3000
Re-amortized loan balance to pay off - $15170
Total cost over 8.5 years - $21007

I can pay the same 200 a month over 8.5 years but incur 5500 in interest over the term. I can deduct the interest but would need to manually pull it out from the tax bill annually. No payments would be due monthly but we would need to be ontop of the money being put away because we dont have an impound account for taxes. This loan takes 1st priority against the home and can cause issues if we were ever to sell but we are never moving which is the reason I am going strongly on this.

I could use the deduction but not sure its worth it for the hassel involved. I looked at point loma credit but their rates were higher than the HERO program.

[sensij]

What was the best non Sunpower proposal you got? The costs you are looking at are higher than I would have been willing to pay.