Solar City

[Spektre]

In my area, we're are getting slaughtered in sales by SC. Despite their high prices and cheap quality, people seem to really go for the big company line. Being endorsed and promoted by the local big-box store helps a lot I'm sure. The leasing companies are all playing the same game though. Jack the retail price up just as far as the IRS allows to get the maximum tax credit, then pass that along to the customer in lower monthly payments to get below what they are currently paying the utility. The "fixed" monthly payment just means the payments are determined and set in advance - not that they are the same throughout the term. If you want all payments the same, that means the initial payments are higher and blows the savings advantage.
Bottom line is if you can afford to buy (or get a loan for) your solar system and use the tax credits yourself, you will be way better off than a lease. The maintenance and repair costs on solar are minimal - why shell out for sure to the leasing company for that? Leases are for someone who really wants to "go solar" but can't afford it and doesn't have any tax liability either.

I think they mesmerize you with how easy it all is - they will in fact lower your monthly/annual bill and you really don't have to lift a finger.

Oh, and they'll tell you because they're so big they will be around in 10, 20, up to 30 years to swap out your bad inverter at no cost to you. Hell, they even are pitching a $2 Million dollar liability insurance policy thrown in for any damage caused by the system they install.

Umm, thanks but I'd rather save $15K today and pay for my own new $3000 inverter sometime in the future.

[solarix]

I'm not defending SolarCity, but all the leasing companies do payment escalators. Not only that but our whole freaking world uses compounding interest. "They" keep inflating the money supply by a "tolerable" bit every year and before you know it, the currency isn't worth crap. You know those little penny trays alongside your average cash register, well now I notice they're starting to have nickles and dimes in them now. You can't buy anything for less than a quarter anymore. Why even keep accounting to less than a dollar? Once upon a time, you could actually buy things for a penny believe it or not!
By the time your solar payment escalates to double what it is now, the money will be really worth-less (and of course, you'll be making a lot more dough per hour and the payment will seem miniscule....) what a deal! But really, how long can this monetary ponzi scheme keep going on? The financial world has to blow up sooner or later and what you really want is to own your own electric production outright - not be beholden to some big company.

[Spektre]

I'm not defending SolarCity, but all the leasing companies do payment escalators. Not only that but our whole freaking world uses compounding interest. "They" keep inflating the money supply by a "tolerable" bit every year and before you know it, the currency isn't worth crap. You know those little penny trays alongside your average cash register, well now I notice they're starting to have nickles and dimes in them now. You can't buy anything for less than a quarter anymore. Why even keep accounting to less than a dollar? Once upon a time, you could actually buy things for a penny believe it or not!
By the time your solar payment escalates to double what it is now, the money will be really worth-less (and of course, you'll be making a lot more dough per hour and the payment will seem miniscule....) what a deal! But really, how long can this monetary ponzi scheme keep going on? The financial world has to blow up sooner or later and what you really want is to own your own electric production outright - not be beholden to some big company.

But that's the whole bizarre point - Solar City has a payment escalator on their non-lease, non-PPA, loan program!

If I'm 'buying' my PV power generation system, I don't expect that my purchase price payback is compounding. I certainly would never buy any retail item that way, regardless of how long it took for me to pay it back. That's kind of the beauty of a 30 year fixed mortgage - in 15-20 years, your payment stayed the same while you got annual raises (hopefully) and your house payment is relatively less of a burden financially than when you bought it.

[J.P.M.]

I'm not defending SolarCity, but all the leasing companies do payment escalators. Not only that but our whole freaking world uses compounding interest. "They" keep inflating the money supply by a "tolerable" bit every year and before you know it, the currency isn't worth crap. You know those little penny trays alongside your average cash register, well now I notice they're starting to have nickles and dimes in them now. You can't buy anything for less than a quarter anymore. Why even keep accounting to less than a dollar? Once upon a time, you could actually buy things for a penny believe it or not!
By the time your solar payment escalates to double what it is now, the money will be really worth-less (and of course, you'll be making a lot more dough per hour and the payment will seem miniscule....) what a deal! But really, how long can this monetary ponzi scheme keep going on? The financial world has to blow up sooner or later and what you really want is to own your own electric production outright - not be beholden to some big company.

I believe the idea of compound interest has been with us for quite some time now. As for lease payment escalators, that's one of those things that are usually dealt with by something called negotiation.

[silversaver]

about 70% of solar owners lease the system. Most of friends around me whom lease their solar system telling me why I paid cash when solar are FREE....... One of my client who just signed a 6.6kW DC pre-paid lease for $21000.....

All I can say these SC sales are well trained and I would love to hire them.... on the other side.... signed a 20 or 25yrs lease contract thinking they can walk out anytime?

[paris401]

All I can say these SC sales are well trained and I would love to hire them.... on y:

I don't see em as so well trained... when I got their quote, and others, I decided to buy elsewhere.. when I told the solarcity salesman , he started to go ballistic... the next sound he heard was the click of me hanging up... maybe they r well trained, but not this one...

[J.P.M.]

I don't see em as so well trained... when I got their quote, and others, I decided to buy elsewhere.. when I told the solarcity salesman , he started to go ballistic... the next sound he heard was the click of me hanging up... maybe they r well trained, but not this one...

Compared to how well informed and prepared most of their marks are, it would seem SolarCity peddlers and most others are fit for the purpose of shearing sheep.

I bet some peddlers even show up with the high boots so the marks can't run when the high pressure tactics begin.

My apologies to any readers who lease and are not sheep. My sympathies to those who couldn't run.

[gvl]

I don't see em as so well trained... when I got their quote, and others, I decided to buy elsewhere.. when I told the solarcity salesman , he started to go ballistic... the next sound he heard was the click of me hanging up... maybe they r well trained, but not this one...

This matches what many others had reported, so I suspect it all comes from their training.

[paris401]

This matches what many others had reported, so I suspect it all comes from their training.

I agree... I went with a local guy... not the cheapest for sure...BUT... he had a great presentation, and he gave me 6 sheets with names/address/email/phone numbers of installs they did.. and he urged me to pick out a couple/few and give them a call... and this was after I made my decision to go with them... he said make the calls b4 u sign with me... I was impressed by the low-pressure sales pitch...

[SunEagle]

Compared to how well informed and prepared most of their marks are, it would seem SolarCity peddlers and most others are fit for the purpose of shearing sheep.

.... .

Reminds me of some of the loan sharks you had to deal with to borrow any money in the NY/NJ area years ago.

[gene1138]

Not that I can really offer much more than what everyone has already said but I had SC in and quoted a 3.8 kw system for 25 grand. I had someone else come in to quote and they were able to do a 5 kw system for 6 grand cheaper. Needless to say I think SC is just over priced.

[J.P.M.]

Not that I can really offer much more than what everyone has already said but I had SC in and quoted a 3.8 kw system for 25 grand. I had someone else come in to quote and they were able to do a 5 kw system for 6 grand cheaper. Needless to say I think SC is just over priced.

I think it has something to do with Musk. Seems to me he can't build anything cheap and he's not real forthcoming with details that help to make an informed choice about his products.

[Ian S]

I think it has something to do with Musk. Seems to me he can't build anything cheap and he's not real forthcoming with details that help to make an informed choice about his products.

I dunno, info on the Tesla cars seems readily available. Sure they're expensive but IMHO, a high end car would have been the only possible route to take initially. As for Space-X, I would assume the clients for such a thing have their own experts to grill the company reps pretty thoroughly. SolaCity as we all would probably agree employs aggressive sales tactics, plenty of marketing hype and a somewhat overpriced product. But that's pretty much the American way in many business models. Bose and Dyson come to mind.

[J.P.M.]

I dunno, info on the Tesla cars seems readily available. Sure they're expensive but IMHO, a high end car would have been the only possible route to take initially. As for Space-X, I would assume the clients for such a thing have their own experts to grill the company reps pretty thoroughly. SolaCity as we all would probably agree employs aggressive sales tactics, plenty of marketing hype and a somewhat overpriced product. But that's pretty much the American way in many business models. Bose and Dyson come to mind.

Replace "SolarCity" in your post with "Tesla" and either would be a correct statement IMO only.

Yup - it's just business. Been saying that all along. Also say Caveat Emptor a lot. Musk is a car salesman. Fine to me, it takes all kinds of capitalists to run the system. But as with any any new product, I'll wait a bit and see what flushes out.

[Ian S]

Replace "SolarCity" in your post with "Tesla" and either would be a correct statement IMO only.

The Tesla car at least is quite competitive with other high end sports sedans in performance, style, and comfort. SolarCity OTOH uses the cheapest components it can source and sells the package at a premium price. Not the same IMO only, of course.