Solar City

[davelittle]

Just talked to them on the phone and got a rough quote today.

My average bill is $600/month (from actual usage numbers I gave the guy)

The system they'll sell me costs $86,000 per their report.

I get a $26,000 credit when I file tax return for 2015, so net cost is $60,000

My bill, per their calculations, goes from $600/month to $270/mo (13.1 cents per Kw hour)

My payment to them goes up by 2.5% per year, which I assume is far below what Southern Cal Edison will increase my bill by over future years.

I think they warranty the system for 30 years, and in 30 years it's paid off.

I'm just starting to look at this, but this sounds like a pretty good deal.

Any feedback?

[solar pete]

Just talked to them on the phone and got a rough quote today.

My average bill is $600/month (from actual usage numbers I gave the guy)

The system they'll sell me costs $86,000 per their report.

I get a $26,000 credit when I file tax return for 2015, so net cost is $60,000

My bill, per their calculations, goes from $600/month to $270/mo (13.1 cents per Kw hour)

My payment to them goes up by 2.5% per year, which I assume is far below what Southern Cal Edison will increase my bill by over future years.

I think they warranty the system for 30 years, and in 30 years it's paid off.

I'm just starting to look at this, but this sounds like a pretty good deal.

Any feedback?

Hi Dave and welcome to Solar Panel Talk,

In order for anyone to offer an opinion we need more info, like what is the size of the system, what type of install is it, what are the brands of panels and inverters.

In the past people have come here seeking opinions about SC but all generally end up realizing they are very expensive for very ordinary equipment. Perhaps you should go to our site sponsor www.solarreviews.com and see what their customers say about them. Good luck and I hope you keep reading and educating yourself, cheers.

[MikeInRialto]

Just talked to them on the phone and got a rough quote today.

My average bill is $600/month (from actual usage numbers I gave the guy)

The system they'll sell me costs $86,000 per their report.

I get a $26,000 credit when I file tax return for 2015, so net cost is $60,000

My bill, per their calculations, goes from $600/month to $270/mo (13.1 cents per Kw hour)

My payment to them goes up by 2.5% per year, which I assume is far below what Southern Cal Edison will increase my bill by over future years.

I think they warranty the system for 30 years, and in 30 years it's paid off.

I'm just starting to look at this, but this sounds like a pretty good deal.

Any feedback?

Remember net metering is only for 20 years.

Judging from that price they quoted - I'm guessing is for a 17kw system, in which case you should be able to get for sound $56K which would be about $49K after federal rebate

What area do you live in?

[HX_Guy]

Just talked to them on the phone and got a rough quote today.

My average bill is $600/month (from actual usage numbers I gave the guy)

The system they'll sell me costs $86,000 per their report.

I get a $26,000 credit when I file tax return for 2015, so net cost is $60,000

My bill, per their calculations, goes from $600/month to $270/mo (13.1 cents per Kw hour)

My payment to them goes up by 2.5% per year, which I assume is far below what Southern Cal Edison will increase my bill by over future years.

I think they warranty the system for 30 years, and in 30 years it's paid off.

I'm just starting to look at this, but this sounds like a pretty good deal.

Any feedback?

So this is for a purchase, not for a lease? And it has an escalator? Normally I've seen escalators on leases, not loans. Wasn't aware that SolarCity was even doing purchases.

[MikeInRialto]

Looks like he was given a purchase price option and a lease option - the 2.5% is a killer by year 15.

[pleppik]

the 2.5% is a killer by year 15.

Maybe, maybe not. If inflation averages 3% over the next 15 years, it looks like an OK deal.

[solarfrank]

Can you give us more details, an escalator of 2.5-3.5 % / year are usually used at lease programs. You can get a better deal from a local company with better quality equipment and 25 years warranty on components.

[davelittle]

Here are the details I got from them. system size is 17.00 kW DC
Estimated annual production is 25,690 kWh

they say system will cost $87,000, and I'll get tax credit of $26,000 with my 2015 return, so the net system cost is $61,000

My payment goes to $375 (from $613) initially (all to them, with none to SCE). After I give them the tax credit of $26,000 next year, the payment to them drops to $268/month.

I can pay off the loan balance to them at any time also, making the payments go to zero.

The annual increase to them is 2.5%, but I imagine that's far less than what Edison's increases over the years will be.

So the way I see it, I'm saving $350/month beginning next year, and that savings gap would only grow, since SCE's bills to me would increase faster than the 2.5% my payment to Solar City goes up.

I don't see a downside to this. They warranty the system and also guarantee how much it will produce. Seems like I'm banking on Solar City staying in business, but I'm guessing they're the highest credit quality in the business. So I'm not sure it matters what kind of inverter or panels they're using.

Can someone tell me what I'm missing?

[davelittle]

I had the guy send me a pdf with all the details, so let me know if you're interested and I'll forward to you by e-mail.

Thanks in advance for any help.

Dave

[davelittle]

Remember net metering is only for 20 years.

Judging from that price they quoted - I'm guessing is for a 17kw system, in which case you should be able to get for sound $56K which would be about $49K after federal rebate

What area do you live in?

I'm in La Habra Heights, which is Los Angeles County.

So looks like their cost is substantially higher than what you're saying for some reason ($86,000 versus $56,000).

[davelittle]

Can you give us more details, an escalator of 2.5-3.5 % / year are usually used at lease programs. You can get a better deal from a local company with better quality equipment and 25 years warranty on components.

The way I read their quote is that the Financing Term is 30 years, with a 2.5% fixed annual increase in the payment. The fine print references loan repayment rates, so I don't think it's a lease.

[thejq]

$87K for 17KW system is $5.11/W installed which is probably the most expensive sunpower quote I've seen in a long time, especially for that size of system. My guess is that in order to give you 2.5% 30 year loan, Solar City has to buy down the rate, so you pay more up front. The best solar loan I was told was about 7%. Sunpower's loan is normally 9-10%. If you are going to get a loan, why don't you do a HELOC which is currently at 1% + prime (2.99%) = roughly 4%. Plus all the interest you pay to HELOC is tax deductible in itemized deduction method, and there's no early payoff penalty. I'd also get some quotes locally from other vendors and with other reputable brands (LG, Keocera, Panasonic, Canadian Solar, Solar World etc.) of panels. I've seen plenty of quotes with < $3.5/W for your size of system with LG300/305W which's comparable in build quality and performance to the Sunpower without the $ premium.

[insaneoctane]

I see many doomsday posts about the rising cost of electricity. My personal feeling of being gouged by my PUCO probably was the first thing that got me interested in installing solar in my house. That said, when I did the research myself, I found that the energy rate increases weren't as bad as it felt and NO WHERE NEAR where the solar industry was trying to portrait. Here is an excerpt from a UC Davis study...

EIA’s most recent Annual Energy Outlook (2013) projects relatively modest electricity price increases in the range of 1.9-3.4% per year during the period 2013-2040

link to study

Don't take my word for it, look for yourself so that you are confident in your decision. Rates are actually coming down for SCE right now as they realize solar prevents them from gouging customers who have the means to do something about it. Ultimately, rates will go up, just make educated calculations.

[nova]

I don't think the net cost is 61K the tax credit as I understand it only reducing your taxable income it's not a rebate in cash.

Am I understanding that correctly, so if one was in say a 25% tax bracket the saving is 25% of 26,000 or $6500 in real dollars

[davelittle]

I don't think the net cost is 61K the tax credit as I understand it only reducing your taxable income it's not a rebate in cash.

Am I understanding that correctly, so if one was in say a 25% tax bracket the saving is 25% of 26,000 or $6500 in real dollars

Thanks for the response. Pretty sure it's a tax credit, which is a dollar for dollar reduction in tax liability. It's not just a deduction.