Electrical panel upgrade

[inetdog]

There are ones that are same dimensions and connections as breaker - but no switch on them and no OCPD. I found picture of one that's similar to what I saw before - a "sub feed lug kit" - ex. Square D part is "QO60SL" (there's a few ebay auctions for QO60SL with pictures.)

Note for awhite if you're looking at this - I am NOT advocating using this for you. I have no idea if it'd pass an inspection - it seems like it'd theoretically work same as a line-side tap. But that's theory, and meeting code is a separate thing from theory.

Yes, if that sort of subfeed lug adapter is available for the panel in question, it would be NEC compliant provided that the wire sizes used between the lugs and the PV disconnect fit the 24" or 10' tap rule conditions.
I also agree that the inspector might not see it the same way.

[CraziFuzzy]

I don't believe there is anything prohibiting their use. As long as they are UL listed and fit the panel is question, there is no different in their use and a direct Lug. As mentioned, you'd need to have the disconnecting means located very close by, and of course labeled well.

Honestly, for this particular home, the best option is likely to just run the solar into one of the two subpanels, and not touch the meter-panel.

[CraziFuzzy]

Or, what about, if he's bringing in a 20A solar feed, he might be able replace the Q240 breaker with a Q24020 tandem breaker.

[inetdog]

Or, what about, if he's bringing in a 20A solar feed, he might be able replace the Q240 breaker with a Q24020 tandem breaker.

If it fits and he gets the specific model quad breaker that has common trip for each of the 240V pole pairs, it should be legal.
It would be a line side connection with the 120% rule not applying.
If the inverter is a 240V connection that two pole breaker must interrupt both poles on activation.
Same for the feed to the subpanel.

[CraziFuzzy]

If it fits and he gets the specific model quad breaker that has common trip for each of the 240V pole pairs, it should be legal.
It would be a line side connection with the 120% rule not applying.
If the inverter is a 240V connection that two pole breaker must interrupt both poles on activation.
Same for the feed to the subpanel.

Correct, that's what the '2' designated after the Q in Siemens' numbering.

Q (series) 2-pole 40A 20A, means it has a pair of 40A breakers tied together, and a pair of 20A breakers tied together.

[inetdog]

Correct, that's what the '2' designated after the Q in Siemens' numbering.

Q (series) 2-pole 40A 20A, means it has a pair of 40A breakers tied together, and a pair of 20A breakers tied together.

But having the handle tie present does not necessarily mean common trip. It really affects only manual operation. Common trip requires an internal connection between the two pole mechanisms.

Other manufacturers offer a variety of independent and common trip in the four total pole device, and although it is easy to provide common trip for the center pair it is mechanically difficult to provide common trip for the outside pair.
Look carefully at the specifications.

In the case of Siemens QT breakers the basic breaker (e.g. Q24020) is not common trip.
Adding the suffix CT (e.g Q24020CT) indicates that only the center unit is common trip,
Adding the suffix CT2 (e.g. Q24020CT2) indicates that both the inner and outer pair are independently common trip.

[Constellation]

Siemens vs Eaton for panel upgrade

[ATTACH=CONFIG]5676[/ATTACH]

Then this is what you will probably get.

Its a Eaton panel, designed specifically for solar installs...

http://www.eaton.com/ecm/groups/publ...br003002en.pdf

Just curious if people have thoughts on this? We have an antique panel, have dealt with flickering lights for years so happy to do the upgrade, but what models specifically should we consider? Any thoughts re Siemens vs Eaton, and what type of panel (is the Siemens combination meter load center a good way to go?). Also, if we have our regular electrician do this separately (as part of a remodel, which we need to finish before our panels can go up), is there anything in particular that we should watch out for (since he is not necessarily a specialist in solar)?

Thank you!!

[foo1bar]

We have an antique panel, have dealt with flickering lights for years

Flickering lights are usually a very bad sign - they generally mean something isn't connected well.
Could be in the panel, or could be at the light switch or the light fixture or somewhere else.

Just curious if people have thoughts on this? We have an antique panel, have dealt with flickering lights for years so happy to do the upgrade, but what models specifically should we consider?

1> Something that will fit in the space you have without a lot of work
2> Something that will fit in the space you have without a lot of work
3> (maybe) a panel that has a built-in solar feed-in
4> (maybe) a panel that will support larger service than what you have (but can be downgraded with a smaller main circuit breaker to be same as your current service)

"(is the Siemens combination meter load center a good way to go?)"
If you currently have a meter+load center for your meter, it might be.
If you don't, then probably not.

IMO any of the big names for electrical panels are going to be good. Doesn't matter if it's square-D, Siemens, Eaton, GE.

. Also, if we have our regular electrician do this separately (as part of a remodel, which we need to finish before our panels can go up), is there anything in particular that we should watch out for (since he is not necessarily a specialist in solar)?

If it's part of putting in the solar system (and it sounds like it is) I'd make sure I had it documented how much was panel upgrade, as IMO that's something you can use as part of your solar install cost.

[sensij]

Just curious if people have thoughts on this? We have an antique panel, have dealt with flickering lights for years so happy to do the upgrade, but what models specifically should we consider? Any thoughts re Siemens vs Eaton, and what type of panel (is the Siemens combination meter load center a good way to go?). Also, if we have our regular electrician do this separately (as part of a remodel, which we need to finish before our panels can go up), is there anything in particular that we should watch out for (since he is not necessarily a specialist in solar)?

Thank you!!

I would suggest:

1) Make sure it is top fed, not center fed
2) Leave the bottom slots open for solar feed
3) Some common sizes:

100 A bus + 100 A main breaker = 20 A max solar breaker (~3800 W inverter)
125 A bus + 100 A main breaker = 50 A max solar breaker (~9600 W inverter)
200 A bus + 200 A main breaker = 40 A max solar breaker (~7600 W inverter)
225 A bus + 200 A main breaker = 70 A max solar breaker (~13400 W inverter)
225 A bus + 225 A main breaker = 45 A max solar breaker (~8600 W inverter)

[foo1bar]

I would suggest:

1) Make sure it is top fed, not center fed
2) Leave the bottom slots open for solar feed

Good suggestions - I'd add that bottom fed with top slots open is as good as / the same as top fed with bottom slots open.
Either way the solar is at the opposite end of the bus from where the main breaker is feeding it.

Mine is bottom fed - that's just the way my combo meter/main panel ("Combination Service Entrance Device") is configured.