LG LG300A1C-B3 AC module vs Sunpower E20/327 for the price

[root710]

I'm in San Diego coastal area and am looking for a roughly 6.6 kW DC system. The two best bids that I have found are these two options (LG AC modules or Sunpower 327). The LG system consists of 22 AC modules with built in microinverters and runs $3.61 /watt DC. The sunpower is a slightly smaller system at 5,886 watts, 18 of the 327 watt panels and an SMA 6000 inverter. Price is $4.38 /watt DC.

I like the Sunpower panels in terms of quality and warranty. They look like they will last a lifetime with little degradation. Of course it comes at a price which I'm not sure really pays off when you consider the higher initial cost and the lifetime benifit/savings spread out over so long.

The LG panels on the other hand have the latest technology that I believe the industry is moving toward as a whole. (I know this is a very contested topic) Suffice it to say that I believe microinverters are here to stay and will increase market share at a rate to where they will be the predominate inverter in a few years. I like the idea of the safety and ease of repairs or changes to the system with the ACPV panels. Basically they are plug and play. I think this is what we'll all be using in a few years. I don't like the big bulky inverters of the other systems, the decreased longevity and the clunky wiring setup envolved with them also.

The printed circuitboard wiring of the LG cells as with all other panels except the Sunpower look a little sketchy for holding up for 30+ years of sun exposure and temperature changes. I think the LG system uses some kind of microwiring to increase efficiency by not covering up as much of the crystalline cell. Could this decrease longevity?

I can get a larger Sunpower system at similar cost ratio with 21 panels. But the overall total cost of the starts to get astronomical. I don't know that I need to do a 100% zeroing out of my energy usage. I have an EV and the TOU rate plan may be of some benefit.

Lastly I don't know if there is much difference in terms of low light productivity between the modules or the inverters. With the night and morning low clouds and fog at the coast this is a bit of a concern. My roof is 22.5 degree pitch but the Azimuth is around 120 so my roof isn't oriented ideally. Shading is not an issue but as I say low light system performance may be.

So, I'm torn between the two systems and would like recommendations. Thanks!

[thejq]

I think this topic has been discussed many times in the past and most recently with the same panels you're interested at http://www.solarpaneltalk.com/showth...G-vs-Sun-Power

[Ian S]

The LG microinverters are fairly new. Hope they last better than the early Enphase units. I would check the warranty and ensure it covers the cost of labor to uninstall and reinstall a defective microinverter. At least you're in a coastal area where the rooftop temperatures will be fairly moderate. The premium on the SunPower is probably more than you'll ever get back in higher lifetime output but SunPower is top quality stuff. LG fine too but I wonder if you could save even more with LG panels and a string inverter like the SMA. The latter could have the option of power when the grid is down and sun is shining which is an attractive feature IMHO. Wish I had it.

[sensij]

By one measure, Enphase is already dominating. By year over year market share growth, however, SolarEdge is showing more strength, while Enphase has been flat recently, unable to break through the 40% line.

[root710]

I think this topic has been discussed many times in the past and most recently with the same panels you're interested at http://www.solarpaneltalk.com/showth...G-vs-Sun-Power

Yes, but the thread was hijacked with a bunch talk about car preferences.

I know the excuses of new technology, untested unit history on the LG microinverters, rooftop heat etc. I have discounted those things as I want to be an early adopter and am willing to take the risk.

I was wondering if anyone has installed the LG AC modules yet as there has been some slight amount of discussion in previous threads. The only reason I would go with a string inverter is because the Sunpower modules are too much power for the micros. So LG 300 with string inverter is out for me unless someone can show they can produce better in low light or some other advantage. Yes, I do like the power outlet on the SMA for use in power outages but where I'm at, it's pretty rare that there is an outage for more that an hour or two and even those are rare.

Any input on the longevity/quality of the LG panels in general?

[root710]

By one measure, Enphase is already dominating. By year over year market share growth, however, SolarEdge is showing more strength, while Enphase has been flat recently, unable to break through the 40% line.

Sensij, I wonder if the new trend toward AC panels will help push microinverters forward. Although SolarEdge is working at getting their optimizers built-in as well, so it might be a wash.

[thejq]

Yes, but the thread was hijacked with a bunch talk about car preferences.

LOL, so true.

I know the excuses of new technology, untested unit history on the LG microinverters, rooftop heat etc. I have discounted those things as I want to be an early adopter and am willing to take the risk.

I was wondering if anyone has installed the LG AC modules yet as there has been some slight amount of discussion in previous threads. The only reason I would go with a string inverter is because the Sunpower modules are too much power for the micros. So LG 300 with string inverter is out for me unless someone can show they can produce better in low light or some other advantage. Yes, I do like the power outlet on the SMA for use in power outages but where I'm at, it's pretty rare that there is an outage for more that an hour or two and even those are rare.

Any input on the longevity/quality of the LG panels in general?

The ACe panel was announced at InterSolar 2014 (July?). But just recently I have been installer claim to have (or soon to have) them. None of the forum members (that I remember) here has it installed yet. So you're pretty much in new territories here. If you have done your research and are satisfied with your conclusion, I'd say go for it. You will do this forum a huge favor by coming back and report your experience (good or bad) so others after you can make a more informed decision.

[sensij]

Sensij, I wonder if the new trend toward AC panels will help push microinverters forward. Although SolarEdge is working at getting their optimizers built-in as well, so it might be a wash.

Could be. 1.5 years ago, one observer noted the lack of standardization in AC panels, and why that might be a problem. I don't know if the situation has changed.

[root710]

Could be. 1.5 years ago, one observer noted the lack of standardization in AC panels, and why that might be a problem. I don't know if the situation has changed.

Dumb question here.....How do I reply without a quote? I only see a button for reply with quote.

Anyway, any comments on the LG 300 mono x neon panels that don't have the built-in inverter? From a panel standpoint I think it's the same as the AC without the microinverter. Any history on these? What are your thoughts on their long term reliability?

Any thoughts on the pricing of the two systems I mentioned? What looks more tempting from a bang for the buck standpoint? Do the quotes look reasonable? Is Sunpower really worth the price differential. I don't care about looks, it's on the back of my house where I'll never see em.

Thanks.

[Ian S]

Dumb question here.....How do I reply without a quote? I only see a button for reply with quote.

Use the Reply to Thread button at the end of the thread.

[slopoke]

Use the Reply to Thread button at the end of the thread.

Use the " +Reply To Thread " button at the lower left corner.

[Ian S]

Use the " +Reply To Thread " button at the lower left corner.

Yes, it's at the lower left of each page not at the thread end.

[root710]

Yes, it's at the lower left of each page not at the thread end.

Ahhhh. Thanks, I told you it was a dumb question. Don't know why I didn't see it before.

[J.P.M.]

Yes, it's at the lower left of each page not at the thread end.

Or at the upper left at the beginning.

[J.P.M.]

I'm in San Diego coastal area and am looking for a roughly 6.6 kW DC system. The two best bids that I have found are these two options (LG AC modules or Sunpower 327). The LG system consists of 22 AC modules with built in microinverters and runs $3.61 /watt DC. The sunpower is a slightly smaller system at 5,886 watts, 18 of the 327 watt panels and an SMA 6000 inverter. Price is $4.38 /watt DC.

I like the Sunpower panels in terms of quality and warranty. They look like they will last a lifetime with little degradation. Of course it comes at a price which I'm not sure really pays off when you consider the higher initial cost and the lifetime benifit/savings spread out over so long.

The LG panels on the other hand have the latest technology that I believe the industry is moving toward as a whole. (I know this is a very contested topic) Suffice it to say that I believe microinverters are here to stay and will increase market share at a rate to where they will be the predominate inverter in a few years. I like the idea of the safety and ease of repairs or changes to the system with the ACPV panels. Basically they are plug and play. I think this is what we'll all be using in a few years. I don't like the big bulky inverters of the other systems, the decreased longevity and the clunky wiring setup envolved with them also.

The printed circuitboard wiring of the LG cells as with all other panels except the Sunpower look a little sketchy for holding up for 30+ years of sun exposure and temperature changes. I think the LG system uses some kind of microwiring to increase efficiency by not covering up as much of the crystalline cell. Could this decrease longevity?

I can get a larger Sunpower system at similar cost ratio with 21 panels. But the overall total cost of the starts to get astronomical. I don't know that I need to do a 100% zeroing out of my energy usage. I have an EV and the TOU rate plan may be of some benefit.

Lastly I don't know if there is much difference in terms of low light productivity between the modules or the inverters. With the night and morning low clouds and fog at the coast this is a bit of a concern. My roof is 22.5 degree pitch but the Azimuth is around 120 so my roof isn't oriented ideally. Shading is not an issue but as I say low light system performance may be.

So, I'm torn between the two systems and would like recommendations. Thanks!

Chances are good either system will produce about the same initial annual output on a kWh per nameplate Watt basis (real SWAG: something like 1,500 to 1,600 kwh/year per nameplate kW for location/tilt/az.). Your decision sounds like one of figuring out if the perceived (but unproven) S.P. advantages are worth ~ $2,800 up front, after tax credit cost with the probable lower production ding from a smaller system of something like 1,000+ kWh/yr. Pay more - get less. What a deal. I'm not sure the S.P. lower long term degradation is worth that much premium, even if you do stay put for 25 yrs.

I'd not worry about low light production. First off, because it's low light, you won't get much anyway. Second, the added production by any low light production advantage will only be a small increment. So, your worried about a small increase in what is a small amount to begin with. Is it really worth worrying about ?

Micros may be here to stay. I bet string inverters are as well. For my money, no shade - no micros. I'd also avoid micros if ease of repair is a consideration.

Replacing 100 % of your load is usually not the most cost effective size. On the other hand, future needs can make a system temporarily oversized a necessary evil.

Bottom line: LG 300's and a string inverter for most bang for the buck, long term, or as long as you're going to need it.