LG vs Sun Power

[HelloImaMac]

Hello
We are considering solar panels for our home.

The cost structure is different between the two - SunPower E20/327 ($4.30/DC watt) vs LG Mono X Neon with Mono X ACE micro inverter ($3.80/DC watt). LG has 300 W peak power output/panel.

has anyone used LG Mono X Neon with Mono X ACE micro inverter ? any experiences ?

Sun Power panels with Sunny boy inverters seem to have more history to back up the efficiency and numbers promised on their brochures. any thoughts ?

[J.P.M.]

Hello
We are considering solar panels for our home.

The cost structure is different between the two - SunPower E20/327 ($4.30/DC watt) vs LG Mono X Neon with Mono X ACE micro inverter ($3.80/DC watt). LG has 300 W peak power output/panel.

has anyone used LG Mono X Neon with Mono X ACE micro inverter ? any experiences ?

Sun Power panels with Sunny boy inverters seem to have more history to back up the efficiency and numbers promised on their brochures. any thoughts ?

Depending on your location and orientation the initial annual output per nameplate Watt may be slightly greater for the LG 300 than the Sunpower 327 (It's ~ 2-4 % greater for the LG 300 at my locatuion). There's more to the story than that, but depending on your knowledge of the subject, probably not enough to make up the $.50 X .7 = $0.35/Watt diff. in after tax credit, out of pocket price. Often, the more knowledgeable you are in the subject the easier it is to see through the S. P. and peddler hype, and the harder it becomes to justify the cost diff. on economic considerations alone, either short or long term. But, opinions vary.

[sensij]

Depending on your location and orientation the initial annual output per nameplate Watt may be slightly greater for the LG 300 than the Sunpower 327 (It's ~ 2-4 % greater for the LG 300 at my locatuion). There's more to the story than that, but depending on your knowledge of the subject, probably not enough to make up the $.50 X .7 = $0.35/Watt diff. in after tax credit, out of pocket price. Often, the more knowledgeable you are in the subject the easier it is to see through the S. P. and peddler hype, and the harder it becomes to justify the cost diff. on economic considerations alone, either short or long term. But, opinion vary.

If you are uncomfortable with the LG Ace micros, you should be able to get a proposal for standard DC LG300 panels (or something else) and match them with the inverter of your choice. The cost difference for the Sunpowers you've been quoted is significant, and is unlikely to be made up even if the Sunpowers perform as advertised. One way to put the comparison in perspective is to consider what it would cost to install enough "standard" panels for you to match Sunpower's output some years from now. One example of that is here.

[Bikerscum]

You can also just get the standard LG300 panels, and pair them with Solaredge optimizers, might save some $ for a system that performs the same.

[Ian S]

The LG sounds like the microinverter is integrated with the panel. What track record does the microinverter have or is it new? Unless you have shading issues, many would question the utility of microinverters. It depends somewhat on your location too: extreme high roof temperatures may affect their reliability. Check the warranty to ensure that labor - i.e. rooftop work - to replace defective microinverters is included. Unless you are very limited on roof space, panel efficiency doesn't really come into play but reduced degradation over time that is apparently seen with Sunpower panels is an advantage. The main question becomes what initial price premium is that worth? Sunnyboy inverters are well-regarded and certain models have the option of providing some power when the grid is down and the sun is shining. That's a nice feature IMHO.

[dat]

For that price, I would go with Sunpower.

[PVAndy]

For that price, I would go with Sunpower.

I agree with that. I'm surprised that it was posted that LG's put out more power per watt than SunPower. We've done hundreds of systems with both and that is now what we typically see.
The LG Microinvertres are brand new so their is virtually no field experience. That is an excellent price for SPR327

Andy

NABCEP Certified PV Installation Professional
solar Design Engineer

[J.P.M.]

I agree with that. I'm surprised that it was posted that LG's put out more power per watt than SunPower. We've done hundreds of systems with both and that is now what we typically see.
The LG Microinvertres are brand new so their is virtually no field experience. That is an excellent price for SPR327

Andy

NABCEP Certified PV Installation Professional
solar Design Engineer

I'll be the first to say that estimating programs like SAM do indeed produce no more than estimates and are to be taken that way - estimates of output, not predictions of performance. However, I believe if the input conditions including wiring, fouling, annual load estimates and other parameters are reasonable representations of actual conditions and the equipment representations are correct, that changing panels from Sunpower 327's to LG 300's may result in a fair estimate of the difference in annual output between the two.

So, in zip 92026, TMY3 for Miramar MCAS, tilt, 18.75 deg., az. 195.75 deg., 3% fouling, 1% wiring loss, 5 kW string inverter, 12 year time frame and costs of $3.80/Watt and $4.30/Watt, less 30% tax credit :

16 X 327 S.P. : 1st yr. annual output = 9,389 kWh., declining at 0.4%/yr. Annual production est./nameplate Watt = 9,389/(16 X 327) = 1.79 kWh/nameplate Watt. LCOE ~ $.1726/kWh at sys. cost = $4.30/nameplate Watt less 30%.

16 X 300 LG : 1st yr. annual output = 8,867 kWh., declining at 0.7%/yr. Annual production est./nameplate Watt = 8,867/(16 X 300) = 1.85 kWh/nameplate Watt. LCOE ~ $.1498/kWh at sys. cost = $3.80/nameplate Watt less 30%

FWIW: my system 1st yr. output , the S.P. system above with the parameters as shown put out 9,563 kWh with some late afternoon shading.

[dat]

I'll be the first to say that estimating programs like SAM do indeed produce no more than estimates and are to be taken that way - estimates of output, not predictions of performance. However, I believe if the input conditions including wiring, fouling, annual load estimates and other parameters are reasonable representations of actual conditions and the equipment representations are correct, that changing panels from Sunpower 327's to LG 300's may result in a fair estimate of the difference in annual output between the two.

So, in zip 92026, TMY3 for Miramar MCAS, tilt, 18.75 deg., az. 195.75 deg., 3% fouling, 1% wiring loss, 5 kW string inverter, 12 year time frame and costs of $3.80/Watt and $4.30/Watt, less 30% tax credit :

16 X 327 S.P. : 1st yr. annual output = 9,389 kWh., declining at 0.4%/yr. Annual production est./nameplate Watt = 9,389/(16 X 327) = 1.79 kWh/nameplate Watt. LCOE ~ $.1726/kWh at sys. cost = $4.30/nameplate Watt less 30%.

16 X 300 LG : 1st yr. annual output = 8,867 kWh., declining at 0.7%/yr. Annual production est./nameplate Watt = 8,867/(16 X 300) = 1.85 kWh/nameplate Watt. LCOE ~ $.1498/kWh at sys. cost = $3.80/nameplate Watt less 30%

FWIW: my system 1st yr. output , the S.P. system above with the parameters as shown put out 9,563 kWh with some late afternoon shading.

If I can get $4.30/w for SunPower E20/327, I definitely go with Sunpower.

[J.P.M.]

If I can get $4.30/w for SunPower E20/327, I definitely go with Sunpower.

Pay your money, take your choice.

Or, another option/view as I believe Sensij suggested on another thread: buy a bigger LG 300 system for the same price as the smaller S.P. 327 system:

Example: 327 X 16 X $4.30 = $22,497.

$22,497/($3.80) = 5,920 Watts --->>> 5,920/300 = ~ 20 LG 300's = 6 kW system w/annual output ~ = 1.85 X 6,000 = 11,100 kWh vs, 9,389 for the smaller S.P. system for about the same price ($3.80 X 6,000 = $22,800).

Probably not as cost effective as the smaller LG system, but some folks want to go large.

[dat]

Pay your money, take your choice.

Or, another option/view as I believe Sensij suggested on another thread: buy a bigger LG 300 system for the same price as the smaller S.P. 327 system:

Example: 327 X 16 X $4.30 = $22,497.

$22,497/($3.80) = 5,920 Watts --->>> 5,920/300 = ~ 20 LG 300's = 6 kW system w/annual output ~ = 1.85 X 6,000 = 11,100 kWh vs, 9,389 for the smaller S.P. system for about the same price ($3.80 X 6,000 = $22,800).

Probably not as cost effective as the smaller LG system, but some folks want to go large.

Then why not install Canadian Solar panels for $3.38 per watt (or less) likes my system ($24100 for 7.14 kW), you can install a larger system. I took my choice with Canadian Solar because I don't get any quote less than $5 per watt for Sunpower.

[J.P.M.]

Then why not install Canadian Solar panels for $3.38 per watt (or less) likes my system ($24100 for 7.14 kW), you can install a larger system. I took my choice with Canadian Solar because I don't get any quote less than $5 per watt for Sunpower.

I was responding to your comment that at $4.30/Watt you'd go with Sunpower. Read/Sounded like a recommendation based on price is all. $5+/Watt for S.P. is not unusual.

Since I'd assume the end goal and purpose of the exercise is to lower an electric bill in the most cost effective way possible rather than install solar electric solely for its own sake, $3.38/Watt for C.S. is also probably a more cost effective choice.

[dat]

I was responding to your comment that at $4.30/Watt you'd go with Sunpower. Read/Sounded like a recommendation based on price is all. $5+/Watt for S.P. is not unusual.

Since I'd assume the end goal and purpose of the exercise is to lower an electric bill in the most cost effective way possible rather than install solar electric solely for its own sake, $3.38/Watt for C.S. is also probably a more cost effective choice.

I understand your point. Sometime I would pay more for the best and be proud of it. Plus the Sunpower covers 25 years warranty for both product and performance. So at $4.30, Sunpower is 25% more than Canadian Solar, I consider that 25% as the 15 years product insurance and get the best for myself. I know you have a Sunpower system yourself and I admire your system. I wanted a Sunpower system, but I cannot justify its price over $5 per watt. For LG, I won't pay $3.8 per watt. I rather go with SolarWorld for less if you don't like Canadian Solar.

Yes, the end goal and purpose of the exercise is to lower an electric bill, but I know a lot of people (include myself) will pay extra for the owner pride and look of the system if the price is right.

[russ]

I understand your point. Sometime I would pay more for the best and be proud of it. Plus the Sunpower covers 25 years warranty for both product and performance. So at $4.30, Sunpower is 25% more than Canadian Solar, I consider that 25% as the 15 years product insurance and get the best for myself. I know you have a Sunpower system yourself and I admire your system. I wanted a Sunpower system, but I cannot justify its price over $5 per watt. For LG, I won't pay $3.8 per watt. I rather go with SolarWorld for less if you don't like Canadian Solar.

They will be around for 25 years to cover the warranty? Or maybe they offer third party insurance in the event they go down.

You can buy a Ferrari to go to the market in but a Chevy works as well - doesn't impress the neighbor but then the neighbor couldn't care less anyway.

[dat]

They will be around for 25 years to cover the warranty? Or maybe they offer third party insurance in the event they go down.

You can buy a Ferrari to go to the market in but a Chevy works as well - doesn't impress the neighbor but then the neighbor couldn't care less anyway.

I do not know if they will be around for 25 years, but I am willing to take the risk because they are the best in the mean time. As for buying a Ferrari or Chevy, it is personal choice. People still buy more Ferrari, BMW, and Mercedes than Chevy. At least none of the people I know have a Chevy. Most of the people I know drive Lexus, BMW, or Mercedes.