Want to DIY a 6000w system - Where to start? Parts list?

[SunEagle]

A few points I either missed or are not covered here. (and I am not a contractor/installer, but I did install my own 1480 watt off grid system which worked perfectly. #1. DC is and can be real nasty to work with, unlike AC it will arc long distances and doesn't stop. #2. Finding components that will do the job and ones that truly match are 2 different animals.
While I did my own off grid, with a lot of help from members on this forum, it cost me a load of cash buying the wrong things (before I asked the members here) and then having to get something else. For example: I started with a 2500 watt inverter, it turned out to have several features I was not prepared for. It was 240 V, but could not be split into 2x120V legs. Then I had to buy a transformer to get the 120V I needed. Next, I shopped by price, the inverter was less that 50% efficient, then the transformer lost another 5-6%. Then I eventually bought a good inverter, but the cheapo still sets there, along with the transformer, gathering dust.
As I stated in the beginning, I installed my own off grid, but then I decided to go bigger and grid tied/net metered. The utility would not allow me to do my own, not only did I need to use a certified installer, but it had to be one on their approved list. I tried to get them to agree for me to install my own and just have a certified installer check it over, before the final inspection. That was not allowed either.
When I was all done I now have 6320 watts of solar, 1480 with battery back up and 4840 grid tied. The contractor made a few changes to my work, before he would tie my 1480 portion to the grid, but the changes were minimal. I am in New York State, and some of the incentives are not available to DIYers. The cost to me was very close to what I'd have paid if I could not take advantage of those incentives, somewhat more, but not worth the trial and error, school of hard knocks method.

Great story. I am glad it all worked out for you. I respect people that can do thier own work. I respect even more the people that realize that they hit their limitations and agree that they are required to follow the rules to get it done right.

[maple flats]

A few points I either missed or are not covered here. (and I am not a contractor/installer, but I did install my own 1480 watt off grid system which worked perfectly. #1. DC is and can be real nasty to work with, unlike AC it will arc long distances and doesn't stop. #2. Finding components that will do the job and ones that truly match are 2 different animals.
While I did my own off grid, with a lot of help from members on this forum, it cost me a load of cash buying the wrong things (before I asked the members here) and then having to get something else. For example: I started with a 2500 watt inverter, it turned out to have several features I was not prepared for. It was 240 V, but could not be split into 2x120V legs. Then I had to buy a transformer to get the 120V I needed. Next, I shopped by price, the inverter was less that 50% efficient, then the transformer lost another 5-6%. Then I eventually bought a good inverter, but the cheapo still sets there, along with the transformer, gathering dust.
As I stated in the beginning, I installed my own off grid, but then I decided to go bigger and grid tied/net metered. The utility would not allow me to do my own, not only did I need to use a certified installer, but it had to be one on their approved list. I tried to get them to agree for me to install my own and just have a certified installer check it over, before the final inspection. That was not allowed either.
When I was all done I now have 6320 watts of solar, 1480 with battery back up and 4840 grid tied. The contractor made a few changes to my work, before he would tie my 1480 portion to the grid, but the changes were minimal. I am in New York State, and some of the incentives are not available to DIYers. The cost to me was very close to what I'd have paid if I could not take advantage of those incentives, somewhat more, but not worth the trial and error, school of hard knocks method.

[inetdog]

There are no national codes that say you have to be licensed. That is up to the local AHJ.

In most states the licensing requirement is at the state level although the inspections are up to the local AHJ.
In some states homeowner and agricultural work (among other things) do not require a licensed person. In some of those situations, a permit and inspection are still required. In other states only a licensed electrician or electrical contractor can pull a permit.

The county I live in I cannot perform any electrical, plumbing or mechanical work on my own home. Next county over and it is fine.

That is the worst possible situation, where the requirements are not even sketched out at the state level. It also generally means that there is no state authority to appeal to when an inspector cites shirt-pocket rules or misinterprets NEC provisions.

[SunEagle]

There are no national codes that say you have to be licensed. That is up to the local AHJ.
The county I live in I cannot perform any electrical, plumbing or mechanical work on my own home. Next county over and it is fine.
When solar first appeared and states had incentives they wanted to promote local business hence the requirement for a licensed solar specific contractor.
They didn't want all of their money going to Internet retailers for DIY installs.
There was also ( and rightly so) fear of fires starting from DIY installs.
Some folks have the skills but most don't. I have in 35 years in construction walked into very few remodels etc that were done by the homeowner that actually looked like a professional job.
I mostly went to bail them out or fix what that screwed up.

You are correct about the NEC not requiring a "licensed" electrician to perform the work. But the code must be followed by the person doing the job.

I have hands on experience with systems from 4160volts down to 24volts DC yet I wouldn't take on a project that wasn't sanctioned or approved by the local authorities because I do not possess the proper licensing required by law where I live.

As for a local AHJ not requiring a licensed electrician, I guess anything is possible but the percentage of those that don't must be very very small or are in some back water areas that don't care about safety requirements.

We no longer live in a world where towns or electrical utilities are isolated. It is all connected together. What someone does one town over can and will affect what happens in my town. There has to be some process by a person that understands and is trained in the trade to make the final approvals. If that wasn't needed then we increase the chances of someone making a major mistake that can take a life. Can you imagine the lawsuits in a town that doesn't follow that approval process by letting anyone without a license make a modification that can hurt their neighbor.

Maybe I am being too narrow minded but I have always put safety and training ahead of expediency and cost savings.

[russ]

very few remodels etc that were done by the homeowner that actually looked like a professional job.

A handful of DIY types can do the job perfectly fine.

A whole lot of DIY types and DIY wannabees think they can.

Most people have no business messing with roofs and electrics quite frankly.

[Naptown]

There are no national codes that say you have to be licensed. That is up to the local AHJ.
The county I live in I cannot perform any electrical, plumbing or mechanical work on my own home. Next county over and it is fine.
When solar first appeared and states had incentives they wanted to promote local business hence the requirement for a licensed solar specific contractor.
They didn't want all of their money going to Internet retailers for DIY installs.
There was also ( and rightly so) fear of fires starting from DIY installs.
Some folks have the skills but most don't. I have in 35 years in construction walked into very few remodels etc that were done by the homeowner that actually looked like a professional job.
I mostly went to bail them out or fix what that screwed up.

[SunEagle]

I'm planning on a small 2000W over my metal car port. I spoke to my city and utility both have no problems with me doing the work as long as I submit the plan and go though the steps. I don't see what the big deal is about DIY if you like doing that kind of stuff. I have found kits for $1.73 a watt with Enphase M215 micro inverters included seems like micro inverters are the way to go for DIY. Depending on the type of roof you have things can get a lot more complicated like Tile roofs. I find it more fun to do it my self. I have only used a electrical contractor one time in my life to install a 200 amp main breaker box in my home he took an old laptop in trade I had gotten for free. Like plumbing electrical work has a high labor cost. I once had a pipe leak under my slab got 3 quotes to re-route though my attic they wanted between $4k-$8k I did the work my self in one Saturday for $220.00 most of that was because I used copper they wanted to use PEX plastic pipe which now I use as well it's good stuff. It took me 8 hours to do it I even repaired the dry wall they didn't even want to do that. I think it would have taken them 6 hours so they are making $1000 an hour. I wonder how much per hour a Solar installer is making?

I agree with you that if you can legally perform the work yourself it will be less costly as well as rewarding to you as an accomplishment.

What I do not understand is where you live. It is the law in the US that requires someone to use a licensed electrician to make a connection between a solar pv system and your house panel. So unless you are a licensed electrician or plan to use one your connection would be illegal. In some states that electrican also needs to have a specific license to install solar so you can't even use any licenses electrician to do the work.

I have been in the electrical field for close to 40 years and while I may not know everything I do understand the National Electric Code. So if your town and Utility say you can perform the work yourself I would like to know where that is and if you are licensed.

[Naptown]

Pa conn and me come to immediate mind

[k490]

Some State credits or other incentives, on the other hand, do require a professional installer to do the paperwork.

Which state does that? I have not heard of any doing that. If you get the proper permits and inspections what's the difference.

[k490]

DIY 2000W system grid tied

I'm planning on a small 2000W over my metal car port. I spoke to my city and utility both have no problems with me doing the work as long as I submit the plan and go though the steps. I don't see what the big deal is about DIY if you like doing that kind of stuff. I have found kits for $1.73 a watt with Enphase M215 micro inverters included seems like micro inverters are the way to go for DIY. Depending on the type of roof you have things can get a lot more complicated like Tile roofs. I find it more fun to do it my self. I have only used a electrical contractor one time in my life to install a 200 amp main breaker box in my home he took an old laptop in trade I had gotten for free. Like plumbing electrical work has a high labor cost. I once had a pipe leak under my slab got 3 quotes to re-route though my attic they wanted between $4k-$8k I did the work my self in one Saturday for $220.00 most of that was because I used copper they wanted to use PEX plastic pipe which now I use as well it's good stuff. It took me 8 hours to do it I even repaired the dry wall they didn't even want to do that. I think it would have taken them 6 hours so they are making $1000 an hour. I wonder how much per hour a Solar installer is making?

[skeeter_ca]

You need at least 10 posts in the forum to be able to send a private message. UCF only had 8 posts at that time.

Ahh........ok

skeeter

[SunEagle]

???????



skeeter

You need at least 10 posts in the forum to be able to send a private message. UCF only had 8 posts at that time.

[skeeter_ca]

When you get to 10 posts could you PM me with the name of that Florida installer. Thanks.

???????



skeeter

[SunEagle]

I was dead set on installing micro inverters on my roof. But after talking with my installer (well known in central Florida) I have completely changed my mind after some more research . He showed me his service calls for the micros he had to replace vs the central ones. Total stands at quite a few to 0 . Now , he does a lot of business here and probably more service calls than other installers. I do get that it's pretty nice to see how much power each panel produces but how often did it help people to diagnose and replace a bad panel because that is the only thing this is good for on an install with no shading. Other than that, envoy will let you know when you have a bad micro inverter but central one will tell you the same thing without looking at your computer. I also understand the generation losses on bad central vs one micro but how much $ are we talking here, maybe 30$ before old one gets swapped out. I also don't want anyone constantly walking on my new roof when the micros start dropping dead. Ok i'm done debating this. .

When you get to 10 posts could you PM me with the name of that Florida installer. Thanks.

[UCF]

You can claim your 30% Fed incentive on over all cost, but not your own labor (you can claim 3rd party license installer) (Be sure you save all the receipts)

That is why you need to do your own search finding a reputable installers who is plan on stay in business.

It is simple the way I look at it. A good installer will only use quality panels and have their own workers doing the installation. If I find an installer will pretty much install any panels you like, I will avoid them. Why? The cost of staying in business!!

The installer is offering you a good 10 years warranty on the solar system + roofing. Do you think they want to use a bad quality panel? On the other hand, if they just want to make quick money, they will install anything for you. It cost them money to visit you everytime. Agree? You will find few installers avoiding using micro inverter, because they knew those micro inverters will cost them money in the long run and I'm kind agree with them. Ground level service is much cheaper than on the roof. 1 or 2 inverters at ground level is cheaper than multiple inverters on the roof if service needed. The solar panel don't fail, but inverters do!!

I was dead set on installing micro inverters on my roof. But after talking with my installer (well known in central Florida) I have completely changed my mind after some more research . He showed me his service calls for the micros he had to replace vs the central ones. Total stands at quite a few to 0 . Now , he does a lot of business here and probably more service calls than other installers. I do get that it's pretty nice to see how much power each panel produces but how often did it help people to diagnose and replace a bad panel because that is the only thing this is good for on an install with no shading. Other than that, envoy will let you know when you have a bad micro inverter but central one will tell you the same thing without looking at your computer. I also understand the generation losses on bad central vs one micro but how much $ are we talking here, maybe 30$ before old one gets swapped out. I also don't want anyone constantly walking on my new roof when the micros start dropping dead. Ok i'm done debating this. .