Solar Quote help

[Ian S]

They pretty much do the same thing even if one is more efficient by a few percentage than the other. The only thing that matters is how many years the system will get your money back to pay off that initial investment and start saving.

Well, there is one claimed difference: Sunpower claims that because their panels don't degrade as fast, they produce 7-10% more energy per watt over the panel lifetime. If that is true (and they refer to a test report that I haven't been able to see), then that might more than make up the difference in price compared to a conventional panel system. Seemingly minor differences in degradation rates can result in a significant difference in production over the life of the panel. And that translates into $$$ saved.

[KRenn]

Okay today I received another quote for a SunPower install.

(24) Sunpower E20-327 Panels
(1) SunPower SPR-8000m inverter
System Cost = $44,174
Tax Credit = $13,252
Net Cost = $30,922

DC STC Rating = 7800 kW

First yr production = 12,531 kWh
Current annual usage = 14,074 kWh

Gross Cost/kW DC = $5.66
Net Cost/kW DC = $ 3.96

Average monthly electric bill $272.13

12 Year 2.99% loan with 12 month S.A.C. $256
SunPower Lease $212

One of his selling points was using a SMA inverter instead of the Fronius one that it ended up being in the first SunPower Quote I got. He stated that there have been some issues with reliability with the Fronius inverters so he reduced my system size by one panel to make it possible to use the SMA/Sunnyboy/Rebadged SunPower inverter.

I would go ahead and ask to see the quote with a Power One inverter, those are my favorites by far and have the highest efficiency of any inverter available with the SunPower package.

He also was talking about his companies "Elite" installation program. He said that with this installation all wiring would be run inside the house with no external conduit, oversized electrical wiring to help with power loss with both AC and DC voltage, a Shade Awning on the inverter, upgraded monitoring for both consumpion and production, Polaris wire connectors and if I buy the system a 20 year KWh production guarantee. He said it also included the 10 year extended warranty on the inverter for 20 total years of warranty and some other small stuff like no flex conduit used, 3 years of bi-annual panel cleaning etc. If you purchase the system, the Elite installation is an option that adds 8-10% to the purchase price. The above purchase price is with the Elite installation.

LOL......at "Elite" installation......I would ask for a standard installation, what they are looking to charge you another $4000 for simply isn't worth the dough. It's like going to the car dealer and having them try to up-sell you deluxe floor mats and crap.

One thing that I found interesting was his lease price was $50/month less then the other dealer. That's alot of coin for almost the same system.

The pricing can definitely vary on the leases, which is why its worthwhile to shop around, nobody really gets price breaks with SunPower, but the various dealers all have their own different overhead and other costs which can make the price quite a bit higher or quite a bit lower.

What are your thoughts on this quote and the "Elite" Installation?

Based on what I know about California pricing and what I've seen from other dealers, their quote is overpriced by about $5000.

2 dealers that I contacted that are SunPower dealers have not answered my request for a quote. Guess I will scratch them off the list...

Try them back again, sometimes things get crazy and stuff ends up on the backburner, if still no response, I'd send SunPower a heads up and let them know that their dealers are ****ing up and costing business.

[Joker45]

Thank you KRenn.

I had the same thoughts about the "elite" installation. Seems like its a great marketing gimmick.

I have another person coming over today with a quote.

[Joker45]

Had another quote today and I think this is a good one. He gave me options and two different panels to choose from.

(20) Sunpower SPR X21 345 Panels
(1) Power-One PVI 6000 OUTD-US-W inverter
System Cost = $36,225
Tax Credit = $10,867
Net Cost = $25,358

DC STC Rating = 6900 kW

First yr production = 11,322 kWh
Current annual usage = 14,074 kWh

Gross Cost/kW DC = $5.25
Net Cost/kW DC = $ 3.67

Average monthly electric bill $11.00 after system installation
Or
SunPower Lease $177 w/ $1000 down and no escalator.

Or

(33) Mage Solar USA Powertec Plus 250W Panels
(1) SMA-8000TL-US-12 inverter
(6) MNS Modules
System Cost = $33,743
Tax Credit = $10,123
Net Cost = $23,620

DC STC Rating = 8300 kW

First yr production = 13,103 kWh
Current annual usage = 14,074 kWh

Gross Cost/kW DC = $4.09
Net Cost/kW DC = $ 2.85

I do not know anything about Mage panels. He said they were good but not on the level of SunPower. I think these quotes are the best that I have received so far. I also like that he used the newest panels from Sunpower and said there was very little difference in price so why use the old ones. I think the Sunpower system size is good as it will keep me in tier 1 when I am using PG&E for about 7 grand less then any of the other SunPower quotes I have gotten so far.

Thoughts? Lease better then Purchase at this price point?

[ajpslp]

Joker ,
FYI- had a three hour lunch meeting with owner of my company and he directly told me FLAT out that any pre payment for the install would not lower the rate monthly. To me sounds like they are taking $1k out of ur pocket n putting it in theirs . Also I know we r in different parts of country but I received 36 sunpower 335 all black panels, one inverter, upgraded monitoring system annual production of around 16,000 KW and paying $175 a month. Ask him the amount if u dont give him $1k down . Dont forget that means adding $1k to 240 payments in reality and shouldnt raise it much if any

[Joker45]

I will ask him. You guys back east have a ton of incentives that we don't have here. Your purchase price is usually about half of ours due to your incentives it seems from what I have seen on here.

[Ian S]

First yr production = 11,322 kWh
Current annual usage = 14,074 kWh
...

Average monthly electric bill $11.00 after system installation

How does this compute? The system is short by about 2750 kWh annually. And that is only going to cost you $132 ($11x12)? That works out to less than $0.05/kwh.

[Joker45]

How does this compute? The system is short by about 2750 kWh annually. And that is only going to cost you $132 ($11x12)? That works out to less than $0.05/kwh.

I'm not sure to be honest. Our base rate is $00.13/kwh so the math doesn't support his figures. He is going to call me Tuesday morning to go over any questions that I have and that will be one. I'm guessing that they are banking on the system over producing. There are several questions I have to ask him and I will add that one to the list.

Edit-

His quote actually says $27/month remaining bill. It was in another page that I didn't see. He told me $11 verbally but the paperwork says $27. That about right given the $.13230/kwh pg&e baseline usage tier. Of course the third, fourth and fifth tiers just went up May 1,2013!

[KRenn]

Had another quote today and I think this is a good one. He gave me options and two different panels to choose from.

(20) Sunpower SPR X21 345 Panels
(1) Power-One PVI 6000 OUTD-US-W inverter
System Cost = $36,225
Tax Credit = $10,867
Net Cost = $25,358

DC STC Rating = 6900 kW

First yr production = 11,322 kWh
Current annual usage = 14,074 kWh

Gross Cost/kW DC = $5.25
Net Cost/kW DC = $ 3.67

Average monthly electric bill $11.00 after system installation
Or
SunPower Lease $177 w/ $1000 down and no escalator.

Or

(33) Mage Solar USA Powertec Plus 250W Panels
(1) SMA-8000TL-US-12 inverter
(6) MNS Modules
System Cost = $33,743
Tax Credit = $10,123
Net Cost = $23,620

DC STC Rating = 8300 kW

First yr production = 13,103 kWh
Current annual usage = 14,074 kWh

Gross Cost/kW DC = $4.09
Net Cost/kW DC = $ 2.85

I do not know anything about Mage panels. He said they were good but not on the level of SunPower. I think these quotes are the best that I have received so far. I also like that he used the newest panels from Sunpower and said there was very little difference in price so why use the old ones. I think the Sunpower system size is good as it will keep me in tier 1 when I am using PG&E for about 7 grand less then any of the other SunPower quotes I have gotten so far.

Thoughts? Lease better then Purchase at this price point?

Is there still a prepaid lease option through SunPower? I'd be interested to see how that stacks up compared to the purchase price after all incentives. As far as the monthly lease goes, it all depends on how much you are paying for power now and how long you plan to stay in the home. Certainly with the lease there's some advantages but of course when you extract the monthly payments over 20 years you end up paying substantially more for the system.



As far as the SunPower quote goes, he's charging you more than the other guy was I believe. Your system size is 6.9kw and the gross price is $36,225. That is more than $5.25 a watt, which to me still seems inflated, even in California. As a comparison, companies in Arizona are doing similar SunPower systems for about $4.00-$4.30 a watt and in Texas, $4.20-$4.60 a watt. California has always been pricier for many reasons but I'd think getting under $5.00 a watt wouldn't be all too unreasonable.

Is there any additional work that a company has to do on your property that may explain a higher cost....such as a service panel upgrade?

[KRenn]

I'm not sure to be honest. Our base rate is $00.13/kwh so the math doesn't support his figures. He is going to call me Tuesday morning to go over any questions that I have and that will be one. I'm guessing that they are banking on the system over producing. There are several questions I have to ask him and I will add that one to the list.

What's the azimuth on the system placing? Is it going to be fully south...western facing....eastern? For a south facing system, just based on my quick calculations, you're realistically looking at just slightly over 12,000 kWh with those SunPower modules.

[Joker45]

Is there still a prepaid lease option through SunPower? I'd be interested to see how that stacks up compared to the purchase price after all incentives. As far as the monthly lease goes, it all depends on how much you are paying for power now and how long you plan to stay in the home. Certainly with the lease there's some advantages but of course when you extract the monthly payments over 20 years you end up paying substantially more for the system.


I am going to ask him about the pre-paid lease on Tuesday when I talk to him. He said it was still available. Right now I'm paying roughly $272/month average for electrical. So the straight lease would save me about $100/month. And yes, a purchased system almost always seems to be the best deal in the long run if everything works perfectly. One nice thing about the lease is that everything is covered for the 20 years and if it breaks, they fix it.


As far as the SunPower quote goes, he's charging you more than the other guy was I believe. Your system size is 6.9kw and the gross price is $36,225. That is more than $5.25 a watt, which to me still seems inflated, even in California. As a comparison, companies in Arizona are doing similar SunPower systems for about $4.00-$4.30 a watt and in Texas, $4.20-$4.60 a watt. California has always been pricier for many reasons but I'd think getting under $5.00 a watt wouldn't be all too unreasonable.

Is there any additional work that a company has to do on your property that may explain a higher cost....such as a service panel upgrade?

If my math serves me right it comes out to exactly $5.25/kw. My first quote was for $5.20/kw. So yes the first was the best price. But he had the E20's not the X21 panels and a different inverter.

Believe me, after reading all of these posts from NY, I wish we had the incentives they do. But after three different SunPower quotes, they all seem To be fairly close in the price per kw department. I'm going to do some follow up with these installers next week after the holiday weekend and see if they will budge. I also will request another quote from the "Elite" install guy and see what his price is without it. Should be about 10% less for the total price. If I figured it out right that should be under $5/kw installed.

I am starting to think that these guys all know what the other guy charges and are just undercutting them enough to look good on paper.

There is also no additional work that needs to be done. My home is 2 story so maybe that matters little for the height and distance for some cables etc. it was built in 2006 so it's a newer home and there is no additional work for the service panel as it has plenty of room for expansion.

[Joker45]

What's the azimuth on the system placing? Is it going to be fully south...western facing....eastern? For a south facing system, just based on my quick calculations, you're realistically looking at just slightly over 12,000 kWh with those SunPower modules.

I believe it's azimuth is 26 degrees southwest orientation. All of the installers told me that they under promise and over produce. I'm sure they all pretty much do that. I think in my area we also have more sun hours then what they use for the average.

[Joker45]

They also quote 5.7 sun hours.

[Joker45]

Okay asked SunPower installer #2 to take off the "Elite" installation from the quote.

So it went from this:

(24) Sunpower E20-327 Panels
(1) SunPower SPR-8000m inverter
System Cost = $44,174
Tax Credit = $13,252
Net Cost = $30,922

DC STC Rating = 7800 kW

First yr production = 12,531 kWh
Current annual usage = 14,074 kWh

Gross Cost/kW DC = $5.66
Net Cost/kW DC = $ 3.96

Average monthly electric bill $272.13

12 Year 2.99% loan with 12 month S.A.C. $256
SunPower Lease $212

To this:

(24) Sunpower E20-327 Panels
(1) SunPower SPR-8000m inverter
System Cost = $39,979
Tax Credit = $11,994
Net Cost = $27,985

DC STC Rating = 7800 kW

First yr production = 12,531 kWh
Current annual usage = 14,074 kWh

Gross Cost/kW DC = $5.12
Net Cost/kW DC = $ 3.58

Average monthly electric bill $272.13

12 Year 2.99% loan with 12 month S.A.C. $232
SunPower Lease $171

So I'm still working on getting the price below $5/kW. I'm also wondering if I should just size my system to take away all the high tiers like the third quote I received. Kind of makes financial sense to do it that way. I'm also wondering if I should request a quote on the X21 panels. I'm not short on roof space but newer might be better in this instance.

Also, PG&E just requested another rate hike. Here's a brief article.

http://www.bakersfieldcalifornian.com/local/x1891155408/Hearings-on-PG-E-rate-proposals-coming-to-Bakersfield-Thursday

[SoCalsolar]

I think you wil start getting more resistance

I think you will start getting more resistance at the price point you are at. SP under $5 a watt, in CA, is like a Sasquatch. It may be out there but few have seen it, and all supporting photos and video are blurry. The PPD Lease will likely be more than the purchase price and putting money down on an SP lease always drops the monthly payment. Lease vs buy is up to your lifestyle. In the home more than 20 years buying is usually best. Your lease payments will add up to the purchase costs in year 16 + potential cost of an inverter repair/replacement which could equal a year of lease payments. 16-17 years looks like a break even lease vs buy. If you do plan to sell your house there is a lot more value in a purchased system after about ten years. Two good options. Lifestyle is the decider. Is your tile or comp shingles?