One last look before we sign for Sunpower system

[flinstone]

How do you calculate and justify the annual electricity usage for the purposes of the CSI rebate? If I export the past 12 months from the my SoCalEdison account, I get 7000 [was 700, typo fixed] kWh. But that number doesn't appear on my SCE bill (that I can find). What is on my bill is average daily usage: 30 kWh, which multiplied by 365 is 10950 kWh. That's a pretty big difference. The installers are only asking for a copy of my bill. Is the true usage number something the SCE will automatically share with the CSI program?

[silversaver]

How do you calculate and justify the annual electricity usage for the purposes of the CSI rebate? If I export the past 12 months from the my SoCalEdison account, I get 700 kWh. But that number doesn't appear on my SCE bill (that I can find). What is on my bill is average daily usage: 30 kWh, which multiplied by 365 is 10950 kWh. That's a pretty big difference. The installers are only asking for a copy of my bill. Is the true usage number something the SCE will automatically share with the CSI program?

Log on to SCE, you can get your last 12 months usage or call SCE. Somehow the daily average is wrong, I'm not sure how they calculate the average daily usage.....

[flinstone]

Log on to SCE, you can get your last 12 months usage or call SCE.

I fixed the typo in my previous post. I got 7000 kWh from summing the months in my SCE account. What I'm wondering is if/how the CSI verifies annual usage. Neither the PowerClerk doc list nor the CSI Handbook discuss what needs to be submitted to prove the annual usage. There is a form to justify oversized systems for future growth due to remodeling or home additions, but nothing about baseline usage.

[frizzlefry]

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Log on to SCE, you can get your last 12 months usage or call SCE. Somehow the daily average is wrong, I'm not sure how they calculate the average daily usage.....

Average daily use I believe is for the month.

[PenguinSolar]

I fixed the typo in my previous post. I got 7000 kWh from summing the months in my SCE account. What I'm wondering is if/how the CSI verifies annual usage. Neither the PowerClerk doc list nor the CSI Handbook discuss what needs to be submitted to prove the annual usage. There is a form to justify oversized systems for future growth due to remodeling or home additions, but nothing about baseline usage.

As I recall in Powerclerk form you self-report your annual usage and the program calc your eligibility against that limit. You actually fill in the system spec as you would on the CSI calc with the orientation, pitch, etc info. Similar to a turbo tax form. There is a notes field which I used to say I based my calc on the assumption of 2w per sqft (this I verified with CSI and SCE --- they are pretty responsive over email -- they can answer any rebate questions or for that matter anything related to solar contractors -- although they can't recommend specifically).

I only saw an extra optional doc for excessive cost which is needed if your system cost is 'out of bounds' so you need to justify why you're paying so much. For justifying the annual usage I just use the NOTES field.

I received auto conditional approval the same day and doing a status check it says 'rebate reserved' so I have an entire year to claim that rebate -- hoping it won't take a year though! .

Interesting that what Powerclerk calc as my rebate is actually higher than the CSI calc even though they are suppose to use the same algo (maybe CSi is older). In either case what's in Powerclerk is what you will get.

You do have to enter your exact meter number plus SCE account so they can definitely audit your application before they cut the check.

We filed a new energy star fridge rebate with SCE and it was pretty smooth. So hoping the same. Although that was only $35 and this is much higher .

I can share any screenshots of the exact form (alternatively anyone can open a powerclerk account and start filling out the application to see exactly how the rebate is calc). You can only officially submit after you also upload your supporting docs.

Again this is really only for people that need to file on their own or really want to know how the CSI rebate works. Most of the major intstallers will credit the rebate on your purchase amount and do the filing on your behalf. The rebate in this case goes back to the installer.

Checking the latest CSI trigger it really has leveled off and not nearly as many applicaions out there as was during the summer -- maybe entering low season?

In either case to be safe, if anyone (In SCE area) are on the fence but want to take advantage of the CSI rebate should do so by the end of the year.

Although, guess one strategy is reserve it now since they are good for a year and then you just revise your application later. You do need to submit a signed contract though.

[apex1123]

Those that have asked,
One of the two that quoted was RCC Solar.
Though the one we went with was SolarMax due to closer and we have 2 friends that also went with SolarMax and the install went well.

Just got an email from one of the other SunPower dealers (360Solar) that is now willing to price match (little late). I did get a quote from Sullivan which stated they would price match, but never put it in writing. Their original quote was close @ $4.55W - $37,675.00

Update:
So far SolarMax has been great, but a little slower then I expected. About a month in now. We spent a whole week in designing/re-designing the location of the panels until I was pleased before permits were pulled. I know the rep has a lot to do with the whole process, and we got one that appears on top of it all, and has bent over backwards to get the design right. Luckily he was referred.

I contacted SolarMax but they wouldn't quote me anywhere near your price. Still waiting for RCCSolar

[silversaver]

I contacted SolarMax but they wouldn't quote me anywhere near your price. Still waiting for RCCSolar

Solarmax does lots solar systems, their price quotes are different among Sales. You need to do the negociation. I just don't understand why they aren't using in house installers. The installation job were done by 3rd party installers... I think it is Elite Contractor... The seller and contractor were different, so make sure who will service your solar system in next 10 years, because I think they have change 3 installers in the past..... They only offer Sunpower modules or SMX, their own panels.

RCC's price will be high I can tell you now. Their installation job were different as other installers. They will remove all the tiles.... additonal $4k on top of other Sunpower quotation.

[PenguinSolar]

Solarmax does lots solar systems, their price quotes are different among Sales. You need to do the negociation. I just don't understand why they aren't using in house installers. The installation job were done by 3rd party installers... I think it is Elite Contractor... The seller and contractor were different, so make sure who will service your solar system in next 10 years, because I think they have change 3 installers in the past..... They only offer Sunpower modules or SMX, their own panels.

RCC's price will be high I can tell you now. Their installation job were different as other installers. They will remove all the tiles.... additonal $4k on top of other Sunpower quotation.

Yeah RCC will install the panels "flush" to the roof. A house in my neighborhood has it that way, but their panels are on the front of the house and you can see it down the street so think it needed to be installed that way to comply with HOA for aesthetic reasons. They essentially rip up all your tiles and lay them around the panels. I have a brand new roof so would pull my hair out if I had to rip that all up.

SolarMax (at least my rep) said they can match any price and offer 10% lower, but you need another bid in writing to show.

I don't know, my "spidey senses" just never got a good vibe with them. I would get one price than ask for clarification and then they magically find a discount. Didn't find the reps that knowledgable.

I would just use SMax to price shop among SP dealers so you can get the best deal. As far as picking them, make sure you know who the installer will be.

If your heart is set on SP talk to more dealers, their prices can fluctuate. Source them here and direct from the SP site.

I had one rep that did a deal for 24 SP x21_335 mono = 4.61/watt-DC before incentives (OC area).

Also different locations have different prices, heard even better deals in the inland empire area that no one would match .

Keep shopping and comparison shop.

[apex1123]

Yeah RCC will install the panels "flush" to the roof. A house in my neighborhood has it that way, but their panels are on the front of the house and you can see it down the street so think it needed to be installed that way to comply with HOA for aesthetic reasons. They essentially rip up all your tiles and lay them around the panels. I have a brand new roof so would pull my hair out if I had to rip that all up.

SolarMax (at least my rep) said they can match any price and offer 10% lower, but you need another bid in writing to show.

I don't know, my "spidey senses" just never got a good vibe with them. I would get one price than ask for clarification and then they magically find a discount. Didn't find the reps that knowledgable.

I would just use SMax to price shop among SP dealers so you can get the best deal. As far as picking them, make sure you know who the installer will be.

If your heart is set on SP talk to more dealers, their prices can fluctuate. Source them here and direct from the SP site.

I had one rep that did a deal for 24 SP x21_335 mono = 4.61/watt-DC before incentives (OC area).

Also different locations have different prices, heard even better deals in the inland empire area that no one would match .

Keep shopping and comparison shop.

PenguinSolar, would you mind PM'ing me the details of this dealer. I am interested in Sunpower but only at this price point. My other option is going with a Kyocera system. I want to decide this week if possible.

thanks

[tylertim]

I'm very new to the forums and this is what I searched for: Helpful discussions, tips and experiences. Since I actually didn't really had a clue about solar energy and solar panels I really appreciate the opportunity to learn something from you guys.

[apex1123]

I had 5 companies bid the project. I specified the new X21 series panel. Negligible price increase compared to E20. Suprising tidbit about the E20, no more black backing for future production.

Location Southern CA (Orange County)
Utility = SCE

(24) Sunpower X21-345 Panels - 3 strings of 8 panels
(1) SMA 8000US inverter
System Cost = $37,100
CSI Rebate = $1474
Out of Pocket = $35,626
Tax Credit = $10,687.80
Incentive = $500 rebate after install complete
Net Cost = $24,438.20

DC STC Rating = 8280 kW
DC PTC Rating = 7685 kW
CEC-AC Rating = 7377 kW
CSI Rating = 7376 kW
First yr production = 12,785 kWh
Current annual usage = 14,200 kWh

Gross Cost/kW DC = $4.48
Net Cost/kW DC = $ 2.95

This is an all cash purchase. No financing. Just curious if any one has any comments or if I'm missing something here. 10% less than the next closest bid.

Fizzlefry, would you mind PM'ing me the details of the vendor for your SP x21 345 panels? If you want I can also give you a referral to Sullivan if I end up going with them.

thanks

[Naptown]

Lead times now are running 3-6 months on the E-21's

[apex1123]

Lead times now are running 3-6 months on the E-21's

Thats OK, I'm willing to wait if I need to. I just want to lock in my CA rebate

[Ionizer]

I contacted SolarMax but they wouldn't quote me anywhere near your price. Still waiting for RCCSolar

My quote was more of a price match I had with other dealers, and a salesman willing to deal and go the extra mile. I found each salesman is different with each solar company. Some were willing to deal, others were set on price. (I'm sure it's commission based)

Also, FYI: Solarmax bought Burke Electric a few months ago and the install was 100% by Solarmax on my roof. Not sure if this is the way in all of Solarmax's area, but was important they did the install to me. I was told at time of signing that they just went 100% in house which was about July?!?

The X21's are UP and RUNNING! Data connect guy coming out to finish the monitoring package this week!

[kvas]

A lot of good info in this thread! Thank you guys!

Please comment on my quotes from Sullivan
Due to partially shaded roof they recommended going with 2 SMA inverters with 2 MPPT each

1. Location Southern CA (Orange County)
Utility = SCE

(20) Kyocera, KD320GX LFB
(2) SMA, SB3000TL-US-22
System Cost = $22,500
DC STC Rating = 6,400 kW
Gross Cost/kW DC = $3.52

Second quote was given after we asked for bigger system with slightly different layout

2.
(23) Kyocera, KD320GX LFB
(2) SMA, SB3000TL-US-22
System Cost = $25,999

DC STC Rating = 7.360 kW

Gross Cost/kW DC = $3.53

For some reason price increased by $2500 for 3 extra panels and same SMA inverters.