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(8x12) 96V 180 Ah BYD lithium pack... Any useful applications?

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  • #61
    It looks like AIMS 2000 could charge the batteries as well. I can't find warranty information anywhere though - I'll keep looking.

    I understand that there's significant loss but if they pay me 4 cents and I'm at 12 cents when buying at night, I'm still ahead by a few pennies and hanging on to my clean solar.
    10 x LG300 ACe, 24 x M250 (9.84 kW DC)

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    • #62
      Please don't electrocute me but I've found something cool that's apparently legal (devices ranging from 200-1000W and shutting off when grid power is not present) and used by many people. Having lots of fun watching campy YouTube videos...

      It's a grid tied microinverter that puts power back into the grid with a regular 120V plug.

      $115 including 2-year Amazon warranty for 48V input like I wanted and 500W going back to my house when the sun ain't shinning. That's at least 6 kWh of daily solar power I could be rerouting back where it belongs and on the cheap.

      Almost 200 kWh/month with a cheap Chinese device - how cool is this or will it burn my house down?
      Attached Files
      10 x LG300 ACe, 24 x M250 (9.84 kW DC)

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      • #63
        I won't electrocute you but that thing may. What is a shame is that even though it is illegal to use in the US it can be sold in the US. Stupid huh.

        They have been know to just stop working but worse case is that they can start a fire or cause an electrical short in the circuit they get plugged into. Not a safe device. It is too bad because it sounds like something pretty cool to have but please don't consider it.

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        • #64
          Please don't electrocute me but I've found something cool that's apparently legal (devices ranging from 200-1000W and shutting off when grid power is not present) and used by many people. Having lots of fun watching campy YouTube videos...
          It's a grid tied microinverter that puts power back into the grid with a regular 120V plug.

          The coolest thing about it, is that until the PoCo changes your meter, it counts all that you export, as consumed, so you give electric to the Company, and they bill you for it.
          And often, the inverter is not really efficient. they print a 95% label, but it's often closer to 80%, because they are not tested or inspected
          Powerfab top of pole PV mount (2) | Listeroid 6/1 w/st5 gen head | XW6048 inverter/chgr | Iota 48V/15A charger | Morningstar 60A MPPT | 48V, 800A NiFe Battery (in series)| 15, Evergreen 205w "12V" PV array on pole | Midnight ePanel | Grundfos 10 SO5-9 with 3 wire Franklin Electric motor (1/2hp 240V 1ph ) on a timer for 3 hr noontime run - Runs off PV ||
          || Midnight Classic 200 | 10, Evergreen 200w in a 160VOC array ||
          || VEC1093 12V Charger | Maha C401 aa/aaa Charger | SureSine | Sunsaver MPPT 15A

          solar: http://tinyurl.com/LMR-Solar
          gen: http://tinyurl.com/LMR-Lister

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          • #65
            Originally posted by SunEagle View Post
            I won't electrocute you but that thing may. . . . They have been know to just stop working but worse case is that they can start a fire or cause an electrical short in the circuit they get plugged into. Not a safe device. It is too bad because it sounds like something pretty cool to have but please don't consider it.
            And often, the inverter is not really efficient. they print a 95% label, but it's often closer to 80%, because they are not tested or inspected
            Yep. The problem is that they're cheap, they (sorta) work, and if someone has an old enough power meter, and the installation is small enough, the POCO often doesn't notice - which makes people think that everything is fine.

            It would be great to have a resource to point to to say "here's how bad these things really are." Does anyone know of such a resource? Someone who has done independent testing of a cheap grid-tie inverter?

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            • #66
              Originally posted by jflorey2 View Post

              Yep. The problem is that they're cheap, they (sorta) work, and if someone has an old enough power meter, and the installation is small enough, the POCO often doesn't notice - which makes people think that everything is fine.

              It would be great to have a resource to point to to say "here's how bad these things really are." Does anyone know of such a resource? Someone who has done independent testing of a cheap grid-tie inverter?
              I already have a smart bi-directional meter, so feeding power back wouldn't be a problem. Also, my house is 300-500W when idle, so that's how much I could be consuming right away and 24/7. Add AC, 1kW furnace fan, EV charging, and I'm blowing through this energy like there's no tomorrow.

              From the videos I've seen, tons of people rely on them as main inverters (stepping up to 1-1.5 kW) and while efficiency and heat at 12-24 volts are just terrible, going with the 48 volt DC source brings them up to 90%.
              10 x LG300 ACe, 24 x M250 (9.84 kW DC)

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              • #67
                Originally posted by jflorey2 View Post

                Yep. The problem is that they're cheap, they (sorta) work, and if someone has an old enough power meter, and the installation is small enough, the POCO often doesn't notice - which makes people think that everything is fine.

                It would be great to have a resource to point to to say "here's how bad these things really are." Does anyone know of such a resource? Someone who has done independent testing of a cheap grid-tie inverter?
                It is probably not worth the cost and time to perform testing on a device that is technically not allow to be used in the US since it is not a true Grid Tie Inverter and there isn't any contract with the POCO. Why do all the work to test something that should not be used in the first place.

                The other issue is that if there is a house fire and the investigators determine it was the "grid tie device" that started the fire, then the insurance company will probably not pay for any damages and the POCO may find some way to hit you up with a fine for some type of violation.

                What I ask, is it worth the few dollars you think you are saving to run the risk that it might work and not fail in a ball of fire?

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                • #68
                  Points taken. I've ordered and will be adding 9 more panels (taking me right to the 10 kW max AC output with the combination of south and west exposures), so that's my priority now. We'll see what's left to do and where my obsessions will take me next. Hopefully, to the Outback.

                  43 panels on the roof should be enough... at least for now.
                  Last edited by cracovian; 08-26-2016, 02:44 PM.
                  10 x LG300 ACe, 24 x M250 (9.84 kW DC)

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                  • #69
                    Originally posted by SunEagle View Post
                    It is probably not worth the cost and time to perform testing on a device that is technically not allow to be used in the US since it is not a true Grid Tie Inverter and there isn't any contract with the POCO. Why do all the work to test something that should not be used in the first place.
                    Well, if that work would reduce the use of noncompliant and potentially dangerous devices, it might be worthwhile.
                    What I ask, is it worth the few dollars you think you are saving to run the risk that it might work and not fail in a ball of fire?
                    It's not of course - but right now we don't have much in the way of evidence that they are unsafe. Like they say, one test is worth a thousand expert opinions.

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                    • #70
                      Originally posted by jflorey2 View Post
                      Well, if that work would reduce the use of noncompliant and potentially dangerous devices, it might be worthwhile.

                      It's not of course - but right now we don't have much in the way of evidence that they are unsafe. Like they say, one test is worth a thousand expert opinions.
                      As long as things can be purchased (legal or not) and people believe they can "save money" using them or cheat the big bad POCO, then even warnings saying this thing is "bad, dangerous and will hurt" you will not stop them from buying them and using them.

                      Look at cigarettes and certain food products. Warning labels do not keep people from using bad products.

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                      • #71
                        Originally posted by cracovian View Post
                        I already have a smart bi-directional meter, so feeding power back wouldn't be a problem.
                        Do you already have the grid tie agreement with your utility? If so I apologize; I missed that.
                        From the videos I've seen, tons of people rely on them as main inverters (stepping up to 1-1.5 kW) and while efficiency and heat at 12-24 volts are just terrible, going with the 48 volt DC source brings them up to 90%.
                        Conversion of electricity to heat is always 100% efficient. (This is because any inefficiency in anything - wiring, inverter etc - turns into heat.) It's just not a very good use of a high quality energy source, when a much lower quality/cheaper energy source (i.e. natural gas) is available. About the only place it makes economic sense to run resistance heating from a renewable source is if you have a large hydro system; that power will be wasted if you don't use it, and often hydro systems have plenty of power available.

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                        • #72
                          Yes, I've had the interconnect agreement for 2 years now, approved solar (the county guy looked at my initial row from his pickup truck from the street, the utility guy only cared about the disconnect, found none but since I had micros, he replaced the meter and slapped the solar backfeed caution sticker on) and I'm selling any excess energy at the cost avoidance rate of 4 cents/kWh.
                          10 x LG300 ACe, 24 x M250 (9.84 kW DC)

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                          • #73
                            Originally posted by cracovian View Post
                            I already have a smart bi-directional meter, so feeding power back wouldn't be a problem. .
                            The POCO is a lot Smarter than you are. Yep that may in fact have a Smart Meter that can do bidirectional metering. It is so Smart the thing talks to the POCO several times a day and tells the POCO what is going on. The moment you send power back to the POCO the Smart Meter hey you do not have a Contract to do that. You get billed as power used and Alarms the POCO you have an Illegal Connection. You care caught Red Handed and Busted.
                            MSEE, PE

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                            • #74
                              Originally posted by Sunking View Post
                              The POCO is a lot Smarter than you are. Yep that may in fact have a Smart Meter that can do bidirectional metering. It is so Smart the thing talks to the POCO several times a day and tells the POCO what is going on. The moment you send power back to the POCO the Smart Meter hey you do not have a Contract to do that. You get billed as power used and Alarms the POCO you have an Illegal Connection. You care caught Red Handed and Busted.
                              Again, I understand but that's not applicable to anyone with grid-connected solar panels, including yours truly.
                              10 x LG300 ACe, 24 x M250 (9.84 kW DC)

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                              • #75
                                Originally posted by cracovian View Post
                                Yes, I've had the interconnect agreement for 2 years now, approved solar (the county guy looked at my initial row from his pickup truck from the street, the utility guy only cared about the disconnect, found none but since I had micros, he replaced the meter and slapped the solar backfeed caution sticker on) and I'm selling any excess energy at the cost avoidance rate of 4 cents/kWh.
                                Ok. Now I am confused. If you had micros-inverters and a grid tie system all along how did you figure on using them to charge those batteries?

                                Most of the Hybrid solar systems use the DC from the panels to either go to the grid tie inverter or to the battery charger. Then the software/hardware allows you to either use the grid or the batteries if the grid is down.

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