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(8x12) 96V 180 Ah BYD lithium pack... Any useful applications?

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  • #16
    Originally posted by cracovian View Post
    Thank you for all the info! I don't plan to have any sub-panels and critical loads if I can avoid it.
    That's fine. You don't need the subpanel if you don't want backup power.
    Aside from preset programming, the scenario I'm thinking about is when I'm often generating 7kW and using 6kW around noon (maybe putting 1kW into the batteries.) The cloud comes over and I'm down to generating 3kW but still consuming 6kW, so now pulling 3kW from the grid.

    Is there a way for the Outback to kick in the flow from the batteries and supplement the missing 3kW to prevent me buying it from the grid and switch back to normal operation when the cloud is gone 15 minutes later? Or is this a pipe dream, especially with AC-coupling?
    Not without a separate external controller. With a separate external controller, you could see the decline in solar output and put the inverter into sell mode. But it would definitely NOT be off-the-shelf.

    However, if you are using 6kW and generating 7kW during the day, that's very close to "grid-zero" operation; if that's how you ordinarily run you will see very little benefit from a battery storage system.

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    • #17
      It's just when it's cloudy then I have more than enough for 50% of the time and selling extra energy at 4 cents/kWh and with temporary clouds I'm buying it for 30 cents/kWh during TOU peak time... It's good to know it's something that could be designed/added eventually.

      Would you recommend two Flexware 250s, one for AC connections and breakers (going to my main panel I assume) and one for DC side linking my batteries?

      Again, I could just leave my 20 amp solar breakers alone, right?
      10 x LG300 ACe, 24 x M250 (9.84 kW DC)

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      • #18
        Originally posted by cracovian View Post
        Would you recommend two Flexware 250s, one for AC connections and breakers (going to my main panel I assume) and one for DC side linking my batteries?
        I am more familiar with the Midnite Epanel, and can recommend them. You would need one Epanel along with:
        -A 60A transfer switch if you go the critical-load-panel route
        -An N-circuit transfer switch if you do not. (Available at places like Home Depot.)
        Again, I could just leave my 20 amp solar breakers alone, right?
        Yes.

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        • #19
          I can't figure out a difference between the recommended GVFX and the FXR A series that renvu seems to be selling... Which one do I get?

          Also what's needed for BMS in my particular situation. Are there any straightforward parts that I can buy?
          10 x LG300 ACe, 24 x M250 (9.84 kW DC)

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          • #20
            Originally posted by cracovian View Post
            I can't figure out a difference between the recommended GVFX and the FXR A series that renvu seems to be selling... Which one do I get?
            If you want to "sell" power you need the G version. The VFX is vented and has a fan, the FX does not.
            Also what's needed for BMS in my particular situation. Are there any straightforward parts that I can buy?
            That question will often start a fight on boards like this.
            Google "batteryspace BMS" for a partial list of available BMSes. At minimum you want under and overvoltage monitoring per cell along with a means to disconnect power.

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          • #21
            I'm still somewhat confused as the documentation for the FX states "grid-interactive" and mentions selling power.

            Aside from a slightly higher output and dual AC inputs (I guess it could be used to accommodate my generator?), what are the advantages of going with Radian GS4048A for an extra $1,000? It mentions advanced battery charging for lithium-ion too...

            Would it be easier and more straightforward to install?
            10 x LG300 ACe, 24 x M250 (9.84 kW DC)

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            • #22
              Originally posted by cracovian View Post
              I'm still somewhat confused as the documentation for the FX states "grid-interactive" and mentions selling power.

              Aside from a slightly higher output and dual AC inputs (I guess it could be used to accommodate my generator?), what are the advantages of going with Radian GS4048A for an extra $1,000? It mentions advanced battery charging for lithium-ion too...

              Would it be easier and more straightforward to install?

              The GVFX is an older model replaced by the FXR(A)
              it sounds like what you want is a a Flexpower One system which includes the inverter, charge controller, AC and DC breakers, battery monitor, Mate3, etc.

              You can get either the Radian or FX in a Flexpower system, and the Flexpower models are the easiest to install as they are already set up with all the AC and DC breakers, and a lot of internal wiring.

              http://outbackpower.com/outback-prod...grated-systems
              OutBack FP1 w/ CS6P-250P http://bit.ly/1Sg5VNH

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              • #23
                Glad to hear about one being newer than the other.

                The system looks great but it's $2,000 extra over just the inverter and has the charge controller which I don't think I need with my AC coupling. Mate3 is $400 and it looks like extra components I need are another $600 or so.

                Are there any major advantages when choosing smaller Radian over the FXR(A)?
                10 x LG300 ACe, 24 x M250 (9.84 kW DC)

                Comment


                • #24
                  Originally posted by cracovian View Post
                  Aside from a slightly higher output and dual AC inputs (I guess it could be used to accommodate my generator?), what are the advantages of going with Radian GS4048A for an extra $1,000?
                  Upsides:
                  120/240VAC instead of just 120 volts
                  8000 watts instead of 2500-3600
                  Downsides:
                  More expensive
                  48 volt only

                  Comment


                  • ButchDeal
                    ButchDeal commented
                    Editing a comment
                    The GS4048 is not 8000watts, it is 4000 watts.

                  • jflorey2
                    jflorey2 commented
                    Editing a comment
                    Good catch. Yes, the 4048 is only 4kW; the 8048 is the 8kW version.

                • #25
                  Another downside I noticed was only one mounting position. I can have the other setup on a 4-foot workbench if I wanted to.

                  So aside from the dual AC switch, it's not like it's more integrated with additional breakers or anything.

                  Does it handle lithium battery charging any better? Outback's literature implies it does.
                  10 x LG300 ACe, 24 x M250 (9.84 kW DC)

                  Comment


                  • #26
                    OutBack charger controllers allow full control of all charge set points and parameters, so you can create a custom algorithm for almost any battery or bank of batteries.

                    Comment


                    • #27
                      Good call! I thought it was exclusively for managing DC coming from the panels which I don't have since I'm running microinverters.

                      Would the charge controller help with my batteries staying healthy without having BMS of any kind? I'm somewhat pessimistic that I will figure out BMS in any sensible way
                      10 x LG300 ACe, 24 x M250 (9.84 kW DC)

                      Comment


                      • #28
                        Originally posted by cracovian View Post
                        So aside from the dual AC switch, it's not like it's more integrated with additional breakers or anything.
                        Correct. To get the additional wiring devices consider either a Midnite E-panel or an Outback GS load center. It makes installation MUCH easier.
                        Does it handle lithium battery charging any better? Outback's literature implies it does.
                        All the above versions of the Outback handle lithium battery charging. The charge setpoints are programmable, so it takes a bit of setup.
                        Would the charge controller help with my batteries staying healthy without having BMS of any kind? I'm somewhat pessimistic that I will figure out BMS in any sensible way
                        Not really. Unless you are passing DC through the charge controller it won't do much.
                        Last edited by jflorey2; 08-19-2016, 02:35 PM.

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                        • #29
                          Originally posted by cracovian View Post
                          Also what's needed for BMS in my particular situation. Are there any straightforward parts that I can buy?
                          It is more than likely that there is a BMS built into each one of the 12 volt battery packs. Is there a model number on the batteries or other information that we could use to find some technical specs for the batteries. Could you post a photo of the battery.

                          Simon

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                          • #30
                            I will post it shortly though I only saw serial numbers so far. There are some spare BMS parts that I was given (though apparently only enough for 4 packs), so I'll post it too.

                            I've been draining the first pack for almost 24 hours now (what happened to my illegal 100W bulbs? I know I have one stashed away somewhere...) and I'm up to 1.25 kWh and still showing 12.8 volts on the pack and 114.5 volts on the Xantrex inverter, so these are really good batteries (I think, and for free too, no?)

                            How much farther down should I let them drain or will my inverter stop the flow automatically?

                            It would be a shame to drop $5K on solar backup inverter stuff and then kill them quickly with my daily cycling.

                            EDIT: Xantrex finally shut down after going through 1.69 kWh with the battery pack down to 10.9 volts. I'm charging it back at 2 amps now.
                            Last edited by cracovian; 08-20-2016, 08:41 PM.
                            10 x LG300 ACe, 24 x M250 (9.84 kW DC)

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