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(8x12) 96V 180 Ah BYD lithium pack... Any useful applications?

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  • #46
    Originally posted by jflorey2 View Post
    I don't think that's cheating OR illegal, provided the power does not go through the grid on its way to the EV. (It's also not the most efficient use of a PV array, but it's his money to waste.)
    So he either;
    A) pumps the power into his panel (his words) from the batteries and must disconnect the panel from the grid so as not to back feed it.
    B) disconnects the EV charging system from the panel and connects the batteries to the EV charging system.
    C) connects the batteries to the main panel and charges his EV which is connected to it and hopes he does not back feed the grid.

    What do you think he is thinking about doing?

    If it is either A or B then I am wrong and have misspoken. But if it is C, then.....

    Comment


    • #47
      I'd love the Outback system as many have suggested but it's $5K after all is said and done, so I'm having seconds thoughts even though the batteries were free. I may still do it soon since that's how "obsessed" I am.

      A) It was just a question - pumping back to the grid on the cheap and still safely somehow - wondering if there's an option, that's all. That's what Outback inverter/charger would be doing, so definitely not stealing.

      B) While I have the 240V charging station, I specifically mentioned the portable 120V trickle charger that plugs into the regular outlet, inverter, or a gas-powered generator. Not stealing.

      C) Not an option and not what I was thinking. I can charge this, what looks like, a 16 kWh battery bank with my 48V Delta-Q using solar/grid during the day. At night, connect a standalone 48V inverter to a now disconnected battery bank to charge my LEAF overnight.

      If in parallel, a 2kW Xantrex could charge the car as well though too much BS to divert my solar instead of buying energy for buck fifty. Not stealing either way but having a satisfaction of maximizing my solar electrons.

      Again, not trying to burn the house down and that's why I'm posting and learning. If too much excitement or too much n00b for some to handle then still no need to be nasty.

      I can always recycle this s#it like the guy I got them from, wanted to However, it was great to discover that these batteries are still quite usable.

      But in the meantime, I just dropped over $3K on more panels to extend my Enphase string to steal some more solar and show my southern POCO the finger, before they ban it all and force me to go offgrid for real.
      Last edited by cracovian; 08-24-2016, 10:00 PM.
      10 x LG300 ACe, 24 x M250 (9.84 kW DC)

      Comment


      • #48
        Originally posted by jflorey2 View Post
        I don't think that's cheating OR illegal, provided the power does not go through the grid on its way to the EV. (It's also not the most efficient use of a PV array, but it's his money to waste.)
        So I admit that none of it is the wisest use of my money... But I like green energy and I don't like sending money to the Middle East, Russia, or even the good 'ole miners in WV blowing the mountain tops off.

        The only thing I would mention is that if my POCO is paying me 4 cents/kWh and my best rate is 12 cents (or 30 during summer peak TOU) then, even with serious inefficiencies, it's not so bad moving and converting my solar energy around.

        I wish my grid acted like the battery as it does in most civilized states but it doesn't and these free batteries got me thinking and acting even more irrational
        10 x LG300 ACe, 24 x M250 (9.84 kW DC)

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        • #49
          Originally posted by cracovian View Post
          .......show my southern POCO the finger, before they ban it all and force me to go offgrid for real.
          Grid Abandonment is taken quite seriously by the PoCo and the Building inspector, which is fed by the Po Co, and will red-tag a house without grid power.
          I'm assuming you are in a largish city, and they have "agreements" with the monopolys that have bought into the area.
          Research it before you pull the plug

          Powerfab top of pole PV mount (2) | Listeroid 6/1 w/st5 gen head | XW6048 inverter/chgr | Iota 48V/15A charger | Morningstar 60A MPPT | 48V, 800A NiFe Battery (in series)| 15, Evergreen 205w "12V" PV array on pole | Midnight ePanel | Grundfos 10 SO5-9 with 3 wire Franklin Electric motor (1/2hp 240V 1ph ) on a timer for 3 hr noontime run - Runs off PV ||
          || Midnight Classic 200 | 10, Evergreen 200w in a 160VOC array ||
          || VEC1093 12V Charger | Maha C401 aa/aaa Charger | SureSine | Sunsaver MPPT 15A

          solar: http://tinyurl.com/LMR-Solar
          gen: http://tinyurl.com/LMR-Lister

          Comment


          • #50
            Originally posted by Mike90250 View Post

            Grid Abandonment is taken quite seriously by the PoCo and the Building inspector, which is fed by the Po Co, and will red-tag a house without grid power.
            I'm assuming you are in a largish city, and they have "agreements" with the monopolys that have bought into the area.
            Research it before you pull the plug
            While I have no problem with people that want to go "off grid" and live whatever life they want, they have to abide by the rules and laws of the place where they live.

            Recently someone down in Florida living on his own 2 acre spread felt he could live "off grid" and was doing a pretty good job. But he was living in a town that had specific rules stating he had to have a grid connected power as well as a certified septic system. If he did not do that then he could be evicted and lose his land. Those were the rules and laws.

            IMO not necessarily fare but that was the law and unless he complied he was breaking the law.

            Comment


            • #51
              It will take a lot more in batteries and getting an efficient AC (my single unit is 5.5 kW) but at least there are options.

              GP was stopped by the green tea party from raising the interconnect fee by 1000% a couple of years back and I'm sure they'll try again and come back with vengeance.

              Coupled with ever-falling solar prices and lithium batteries about to flood the market, it will be interesting to watch the tug of war for sure.
              Last edited by cracovian; 08-25-2016, 02:13 PM.
              10 x LG300 ACe, 24 x M250 (9.84 kW DC)

              Comment


              • #52
                I just read an article that Australia looks like a good place for home energy storage to become economical due to the high cost of electricity and the cost of batteries going down.

                Here is the article.

                Comment


                • #53
                  Originally posted by cracovian View Post
                  A) It was just a question - pumping back to the grid on the cheap and still safely somehow - wondering if there's an option, that's all. That's what Outback inverter/charger would be doing, so definitely not stealing.
                  B) While I have the 240V charging station, I specifically mentioned the portable 120V trickle charger that plugs into the regular outlet, inverter, or a gas-powered generator. Not stealing.
                  IF you connect your EV charger to the OUTPUT side of the Outback - and leave "sell" disabled - then all is good. You can pass power from the grid to your EV charger, or charge the battery from the grid, or run the charger from your batteries, or charge the batteries via some other source (solar.) You can even charge your surplus batteries at night and charge your EV with that battery power during the day. The one thing you CANNOT do is enable "sell" without getting a grid intertie agreement.

                  If you want to "pump back to the grid cheaply and safely" then you need a grid intertie agreement. No way around that.
                  C) Not an option and not what I was thinking. I can charge this, what looks like, a 16 kWh battery bank with my 48V Delta-Q using solar/grid during the day. At night, connect a standalone 48V inverter to a now disconnected battery bank to charge my LEAF overnight.
                  That's fine. But why charge via grid during the day? If economics is your concern, then power is cheaper at night on TOU or TOU-EV plans. If being a "good power citizen" is your concern, then charge at night; that's when the grid has more capacity than it needs.

                  If you just want to "give them the finger" then I suppose you could do all your charging at around 7pm when the grid is under the most stress. Not my thing, but some people just want to "stick it to the man" or something. (Of course, then you don't really have any standing to complain when they do it to you.)

                  Comment


                  • #54
                    Jflorey2 - I sold 650 kWh of solar overproduction to my POCO, bought 600 kWh in one spring month and still paid almost $100 for the privilege...

                    I'm not trying to stick it to them yet (only to save the Mother Earth and bankrupt fossil fuels for now) but the acquisition of free batteries got me thinking about ways of retaining some of my generated energy to release during the periods of darkness to minimize (not eliminate) my purchases from the grid.

                    I've learned a lot and still weighing my options though spending $4-5K to save $30/month for the next 5 years or so is just not very attractive.

                    93 cents/W after credit for the next 2 kW of solar made a bit more sense in the meantime.

                    If I could add an inverter safely for ~$500 to utilize this 48V battery storage into charging the LEAF then that would be ideal.
                    10 x LG300 ACe, 24 x M250 (9.84 kW DC)

                    Comment


                    • #55
                      Originally posted by cracovian View Post
                      I'm not trying to stick it to them yet (only to save the Mother Earth and bankrupt fossil fuels for now) but the acquisition of free batteries got me thinking about ways of retaining some of my generated energy to release during the periods of darkness to minimize (not eliminate) my purchases from the grid..
                      Here is a fact you and most of the public does not know because you have been brainwashed. by a Noisy minority and your government. Anything you take off-grid is going to cost you several times more than buying the power from the POCO, makes you a heavy polluter, and robbing future generations of natural resources.
                      MSEE, PE

                      Comment


                      • #56
                        Originally posted by Sunking View Post

                        Here is a fact you and most of the public does not know because you have been brainwashed. by a Noisy minority and your government. Anything you take off-grid is going to cost you several times more than buying the power from the POCO, makes you a heavy polluter, and robbing future generations of natural resources.
                        There's no need to get extreme; I'm not trying to go offgrid and just work within the realm of what I currently have.

                        I've also seen the enlightened ones like you making a case for oil-powered cars vs. EVs conveniently leaving the wells to wheels (7.5 kWh/gallon) out of the equation.

                        No need to argue but I'd update your data and look at the rapidly-changing trends. Obviously, the POCO power is getting cleaner too (with some arguments around natural gas and methane resulting from fracking) and I'm dropping $10-15/month on additional local nuke power GP is adding too. We're subsidizing their gigawatts of solar each year but it's all good.

                        I recently noticed our household produces more recycling mass than regular trash, so that's how evil I am.
                        10 x LG300 ACe, 24 x M250 (9.84 kW DC)

                        Comment


                        • #57
                          Originally posted by cracovian View Post

                          There's no need to get extreme; I'm not trying to go offgrid and just work within the realm of what I currently have.

                          I've also seen the enlightened ones like you making a case for oil-powered cars vs. EVs conveniently leaving the wells to wheels (7.5 kWh/gallon) out of the equation.

                          No need to argue but I'd update your data and look at the rapidly-changing trends. Obviously, the POCO power is getting cleaner too (with some arguments around natural gas and methane resulting from fracking) and I'm dropping $10-15/month on additional local nuke power GP is adding too. We're subsidizing their gigawatts of solar each year but it's all good.

                          I recently noticed our household produces more recycling mass than regular trash, so that's how evil I am.
                          I hear ya on paying for the nuke power. I have been doing so for the last ten years and will continue to pay for nuke power without getting 1 kWh out of my POCO for it since Duke shut down the one working plant and refuses to build the new one. Yet they can still charge me for it. Not fair but that is the way the world turns.

                          Still I only spend less than $200 avg per month on my POCO bill. Seems like a lot of effort to worry about a couple hundred dollars when I can still find ways to use less electricity and save instead of installing a $15k system that may take 8 to 10 years to pay for itself or install batteries that will never pay for themselves.

                          I fully support solar but it does not make financial sense to me right now.

                          Comment


                          • #58
                            So going back to my original ideas...

                            I could wire up all 8 battery packs in the 48V configuration. Connect the existing 48V Delta-Q charger, use the lithium charging profile and switch it on remotely when sun is shining to catch 10 kWh of my overproduction. BMS is still a bit of a challenge that I'd have to figure out but there's a camp stating it's often overrated. These batteries were supposed to be recycled, so do I really care that much?

                            Buy the $300 AIMS Power 1,500W ($630 for 2,000W inverter/charger so I could sell both Delta-Qs) 48V Pure Sine Inverter, hook it up to the battery bank and plug my 120V EVSE to charge the LEAF at 1,440W at night. If the EV is full that night, plug in something else that's under 1.5kW. Rinse and repeat the next day.

                            Aside from the additional cost perspective (it would only be a few hundred bucks more), why wouldn't it be safe and would I burn the house down... Would that inverter suck and not last at least a couple of years if used daily?

                            EDIT: This is the worst inverter apparently but would the plan work with a more expensive decent one?
                            Last edited by cracovian; 08-25-2016, 06:00 PM.
                            10 x LG300 ACe, 24 x M250 (9.84 kW DC)

                            Comment


                            • #59
                              Originally posted by jflorey2 View Post
                              .......If you just want to "give them the finger" then I suppose you could do all your charging at around 7pm when the grid is under the most stress.......
                              Used to be, the grid maxed out about 2-5pm, and then, as factories go idle for the night, the demands drop. But factories have been mothballed and replaced by 24/7 server farms, and civilian evening activities now peak 5-6pm . 7pm is after the peak, but the PoCo can opportunistically feed off the folks on the solar plan by claiming peak hours last till 10pm.

                              scroll down for the daily prediction charts:
                              http://www.caiso.com/outlook/outlook.html

                              Powerfab top of pole PV mount (2) | Listeroid 6/1 w/st5 gen head | XW6048 inverter/chgr | Iota 48V/15A charger | Morningstar 60A MPPT | 48V, 800A NiFe Battery (in series)| 15, Evergreen 205w "12V" PV array on pole | Midnight ePanel | Grundfos 10 SO5-9 with 3 wire Franklin Electric motor (1/2hp 240V 1ph ) on a timer for 3 hr noontime run - Runs off PV ||
                              || Midnight Classic 200 | 10, Evergreen 200w in a 160VOC array ||
                              || VEC1093 12V Charger | Maha C401 aa/aaa Charger | SureSine | Sunsaver MPPT 15A

                              solar: http://tinyurl.com/LMR-Solar
                              gen: http://tinyurl.com/LMR-Lister

                              Comment


                              • #60
                                Originally posted by cracovian View Post
                                Aside from the additional cost perspective (it would only be a few hundred bucks more), why wouldn't it be safe and would I burn the house down... Would that inverter suck and not last at least a couple of years if used daily?
                                Nothing wrong in principle. There's a significant loss going from solar (DC) to AC back to DC, but it's simpler than trying to hack into your solar array. Make sure you size cabling and protection correctly - at your power levels, repurposed car parts won't cut it.

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