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  • #46
    Originally posted by NothingInCommon View Post
    OK guys I keep watching videos that contradict some of the information I got here. According to this guy, you can do grid-tie and STILL use the PV array for power in a grid down scenario WITHOUT batteries using an SMA inverter. PLEASE clarify.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=izjZBCRyCK8&t=11m45s
    This isn't a contradiction to anything you've been told here. The SMA SPS system doesn't offer uninterrupted power. It offers intermittent power without batteries when the grid is down, as long as your load doesn't exceed the available wattage available from the array in that instant. Cloud passes by, it could knock out your load. You need storage for uninterrupted power.
    CS6P-260P/SE3000 - http://tiny.cc/ed5ozx

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    • #47
      Originally posted by J.P.M. View Post

      Once there was the Reader's Digest. Now there's U-tube.The new idiot's bible.
      Once there was a time you didn't know about solar and now you do and that's wonderful. It doesn't mean those of us that don't are idiots because we lookup stuff on youtube. I've learned plenty on youtube, it's an excellent resource. I'm sure there is loads of stuff on there that's BS, but I don't take anything as scripture and that includes what I find on forums.

      From this forum I took that was "impossible" to get power from a grid tie in a grid down scenario, which is not the case. You can. However, it was my misunderstanding, of course, as I didn't consider the "uninterrupted" bit. Now I know that it is possible and that it's very limited thanks to forums and youtube.

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      • #48
        Originally posted by NothingInCommon View Post

        Once there was a time you didn't know about solar and now you do and that's wonderful. It doesn't mean those of us that don't are idiots because we lookup stuff on youtube. I've learned plenty on youtube, it's an excellent resource. I'm sure there is loads of stuff on there that's BS, but I don't take anything as scripture and that includes what I find on forums.

        From this forum I took that was "impossible" to get power from a grid tie in a grid down scenario, which is not the case. You can. However, it was my misunderstanding, of course, as I didn't consider the "uninterrupted" bit. Now I know that it is possible and that it's very limited thanks to forums and youtube.
        he is saying that because the vast majority of videos on youtube related to solar are unsafe and poorly configured.

        eg:
        https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=okqXr7RbCDo
        https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cgEvCLJuBkg

        On this forum the SMA secure power system has been discussed ad nauseam.
        OutBack FP1 w/ CS6P-250P http://bit.ly/1Sg5VNH

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        • #49
          While this might be more than many folks would do what I have at home is a small 800 watt 24 volt array and a small battery bank, 150 Ah @ 24 volts. We run our TV, satellite receiver and home theater components from it. Here in Avalon we average one power outage a month. Its nice to have an alternative power source which DOSEN"T go down on a regular basis.
          2.2kw Suntech mono, Classic 200, NEW Trace SW4024

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          • #50
            Originally posted by ButchDeal View Post

            he is saying that because the vast majority of videos on youtube related to solar are unsafe and poorly configured.

            eg:
            https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=okqXr7RbCDo
            https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cgEvCLJuBkg

            On this forum the SMA secure power system has been discussed ad nauseam.
            Actually, what I meant to convey is that most stuff on u-tube - solar and R.E., and most all of the rest of it - is useless other than for it's entertainment value, and not to be taken seriously. Most of its content is little more than unvetted, unfiltered and unverified attempts at ego fulfillment for folks who want more than 15 min. of fame, most of whom seem to not have the time or concern to care about the damage their half or less informed junk has the potential to do. Taking it more seriously than that and at face value is like getting all your news from a comedy show who don't know the difference between knowledge and entertainmentr.

            Kind of a sign of the times as to what is considered knowledge or what knowledge acquisition has become and another indication and example of why we're a nation and planet in decline.

            To NothinginCommon: I'm still mostly ignorant about most things, including solar and renewable energy, and getting more ignorant every day by virtue of discovering there's more that I don't know than I thought. However, based on a long time hanging around those subjects and after a career as a mechanical engineer in the energy field, IMO, most of the u-tube stuff is wasteful with respect to the use of time and assets the solar ignorant may assign to them, and more importantly, with some unknown level of possible damage to property or, more importantly, possible personal injury. Use at your own risk.

            Take what you want of the above. Scrap the rest.

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            • #51
              Originally posted by J.P.M. View Post
              Actually, what I meant to convey is that most stuff on u-tube - solar and R.E., and most all of the rest of it - is useless other than for it's entertainment value, and not to be taken seriously. Most of its content is little more than unvetted, unfiltered and unverified attempts at ego fulfillment for folks who want more than 15 min. of fame, most of whom seem to not have the time or concern to care about the damage their half or less informed junk has the potential to do. Taking it more seriously than that and at face value is like getting all your news from a comedy show who don't know the difference between knowledge and entertainmentr.
              I think we are in agreement on the value of most things on youtube. the shear volume of FUD makes it difficult for the uninformed to even find the few useful videos like those from reputable sources.

              I have see so many solar how to's that actually remind me of the red green show, I can't understand sometimes why some take it as good advice.
              http://www.redgreen.com/
              Last edited by ButchDeal; 06-09-2017, 11:36 AM.
              OutBack FP1 w/ CS6P-250P http://bit.ly/1Sg5VNH

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              • #52
                Originally posted by ButchDeal View Post

                I think we are in agreement on the value of most things on youtube. the shear volume of FUD makes it difficult for the uninformed to even find the few useful videos like those from reputable sources.

                I have see so many solar how to's that actually remind me of the red green show, I can't understand sometimes why some take it as good advice.
                There are a lot of people that are concerned about climate and higher electric costs so they are easily swayed by very optimistic videos showing how they can either help reduce carbon or reduce their electric bills.

                You can probably pick any topic over the last century and find a way to play on people's fears to get them to "buy into" just about anything.

                Something similar happened back during the dust bowl era where slick sales men got people to invest in just about anything that they thought would make it rain and help their crops.

                My guess is that if a lot of people start to get sick for no good reason someone will reintroduce "snake oil" as the new medical miracle to cure what ails you.

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                • #53
                  Originally posted by SunEagle View Post

                  There are a lot of people that are concerned about climate and higher electric costs so they are easily swayed by very optimistic videos showing how they can either help reduce carbon or reduce their electric bills.

                  You can probably pick any topic over the last century and find a way to play on people's fears to get them to "buy into" just about anything.

                  Something similar happened back during the dust bowl era where slick sales men got people to invest in just about anything that they thought would make it rain and help their crops.

                  My guess is that if a lot of people start to get sick for no good reason someone will reintroduce "snake oil" as the new medical miracle to cure what ails you.
                  So, u-tube is the latest way for slick con men to separate fools from their money. More proof that P.T. Barnum was on to something.

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                  • #54
                    Originally posted by J.P.M. View Post

                    So, u-tube is the latest way for slick con men to separate fools from their money. More proof that P.T. Barnum was on to something.
                    u-tube is certainly an easy communication vehicle to promote products and advertising without the hassle and expense of traveling and setting up your soap box.

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                    • #55
                      I'm still not understanding this disdain for youtube. You guys speak of the solar stuff on there as this general abstraction that the audience is incapable of filtering. There are people on there filming real world home/commercial installs, thousands of them. How is it possible that the bulk of them are all full of ****? That doesn't make much sense to me. As with anything, there is good and bad you just have to look for the good and as I am learning it's easier to spot.

                      I respect your opinions on solar as it seems like you guys know what you are talking about, but i think the youtube hate is irrational... ahhh everyone is different.

                      I'm still a n00b, maybe in a couple of years i'll be poking fun of youtube and the mindless drones that can't help but soak in the disinformation.

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                      • #56
                        Originally posted by NothingInCommon View Post
                        I'm still not understanding this disdain for youtube. You guys speak of the solar stuff on there as this general abstraction that the audience is incapable of filtering. There are people on there filming real world home/commercial installs, thousands of them. How is it possible that the bulk of them are all full of ****? That doesn't make much sense to me. As with anything, there is good and bad you just have to look for the good and as I am learning it's easier to spot.

                        I respect your opinions on solar as it seems like you guys know what you are talking about, but i think the youtube hate is irrational... ahhh everyone is different.

                        I'm still a n00b, maybe in a couple of years i'll be poking fun of youtube and the mindless drones that can't help but soak in the disinformation.
                        Perhaps thinking of it this way may help: Take something you know a lot and care a lot about, want to see succeed and have spent a good part of a lifetime trying to inform people about the strengths and limitations about Now watch it misrepresented and treated dishonestly by people who know little about what you care about in ways you know to be dumb beyond reason and in more than a few cases, dangerous, with no method that's effective to get rid of the crap or stop more or worse crap from showing up. Now, make what could be defended as a reasonable assume that there's no reason to believe the situation is any different for subjects you are not well versed in, and consider how much you hear about how great u-tube is. Finally, connect the dots. Voila ! another example of and reason why we're becoming a nation and planet of nitwits.

                        Tell you what: Get all your info for everything you need from u-tube and see how you do.
                        Last edited by J.P.M.; 06-09-2017, 11:00 PM.

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                        • #57
                          Originally posted by NothingInCommon View Post
                          I'm still not understanding this disdain for youtube. You guys speak of the solar stuff on there as this general abstraction that the audience is incapable of filtering. There are people on there filming real world home/commercial installs, thousands of them. How is it possible that the bulk of them are all full of ****? That doesn't make much sense to me. As with anything, there is good and bad you just have to look for the good and as I am learning it's easier to spot.

                          I respect your opinions on solar as it seems like you guys know what you are talking about, but i think the youtube hate is irrational... ahhh everyone is different.

                          I'm still a n00b, maybe in a couple of years i'll be poking fun of youtube and the mindless drones that can't help but soak in the disinformation.
                          Unfortunately I have seen more videos of things that are not safe or legal being posted on You tube. It is scary to see people being duped into thinking that what someone does on a couple of videos is ok without first doing a little more hard research on a topic.

                          Understanding a technology and learning all you can about it requires a little more work then what the typical person will invest their time because of the way society has turned to needing instant gratification and knowledge. It is easier for them to believe in a TV show or you tube video then to read a book.

                          I am not saying everything that is posted on you tube is false. I am just saying that if you can believe a video just because it looks good then you can be easily swayed into believing just about anything which can cost you or hurt you at worse.

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                          • #58
                            Originally posted by NothingInCommon View Post
                            I'm still not understanding this disdain for youtube. You guys speak of the solar stuff on there as this general abstraction that the audience is incapable of filtering. There are people on there filming real world home/commercial installs, thousands of them. How is it possible that the bulk of them are all full of ****?
                            They're not. Most are pretty average - most of the info is correct, and it's not too hard to understand, but there are mistakes. Some are terrible - full of errors, or with presentations so bad that they do more harm than good, or are political ads thinly disguised as advice. Some are great.

                            In that way, it's a lot like this forum.
                            That doesn't make much sense to me. As with anything, there is good and bad you just have to look for the good and as I am learning it's easier to spot.
                            That's the key. Once you know enough to discriminate, unfiltered sources like Youtube become a lot less hazardous.
                            I'm still a n00b, maybe in a couple of years i'll be poking fun of youtube and the mindless drones that can't help but soak in the disinformation.
                            I doubt that. But I have a feeling that you will get to the point where someone asks you "so I want to generate some power - not a lot, just enough to run my air conditioner and refrigerators - and I saw this thing on Youtube . . . ." and your first reaction will be to sigh.

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