How much did I save? How many kWh did we use last month?

[jflorey2]

IMO, there are better ways to do both for a lot less money.

Absolutely. We could take cold showers, or cold-for-60-seconds showers. We could skip showers or take baths. But this worked for us, cost us very little, and saves about 600 gallons of water a year. ($4 a year, in other words, and the pump cost me $40, control stuff cost me $15.)

[J.P.M.]

I've got one. It saves us a few gallons of water a day. And with water more expensive than energy for us, it makes sense.

IMO, there are better ways to do both for a lot less money.

[bcroe]

There are point of use heaters that mount right under the sink or the floor in the bathrooms that kick on as soon as there is flow in the hot water pipe. Alternatively there are pumps with temperature sensor that bypass the flow out of the hot water pipe to the cold water pipe until the temperature in the hot water side hits a preset temp . There is lag in hot water but at least its going back into the water system instead of into the sewer.

Yes but kind of violates the KISS idea, when you have several baths plus kitchen, laundry.
Bruce Roe

[peakbagger]

There are point of use heaters that mount right under the sink or the floor in the bathrooms that kick on as soon as there is flow in the hot water pipe. Alternatively there are pumps with temperature sensor that bypass the flow out of the hot water pipe to the cold water pipe until the temperature in the hot water side hits a preset temp .There is lag in hot water but at least its going back into the water system instead of into the sewer.

[jflorey2]

Residential hot water recirc. systems are energy hogs sold to ignorant people for the purpose of contractors making more money. There are better, cheaper and much more efficient ways to produce the same results.

I've got one. It saves us a few gallons of water a day. And with water more expensive than energy for us, it makes sense.

[bcroe]

Residential hot water recirc. systems are energy hogs sold to ignorant people for the purpose of contractors making more money. There are better, cheaper and much more efficient ways to produce the same results.

I have not found another way to have instant hot water all over this strung out ranch.
Insulation and a controlled, efficient pump are in place, but the remaining energy loss
is being supplied for free from the sun. Bruce Roe

[J.P.M.]

It might be a lot less evil if the pipes have been carefully insulated, and most months involve heating,
not air conditioning. Bruce Roe

Bruce, there are many parts of the country where residential heating is not a consideration for most of the year. Even if it is, and even with careful insulation, it's still an uncontrolled heat load.

Residential hot water recirc. systems are energy hogs sold to ignorant people for the purpose of contractors making more money. There are better, cheaper and much more efficient ways to produce the same results.

[bcroe]

I will point out that a hot water recirculation system is a pretty evil thing that power companies love. Typically water piping is not insulated well if at all and its in a interior space, its effectively electric hot water heating running 24/7 while the air conditioning is running.

It might be a lot less evil if the pipes have been carefully insulated, and most months involve heating,
not air conditioning. Bruce Roe

[peakbagger]

I will point out that a hot water recirculation system is a pretty evil thing that power companies love. Typically water piping is not insulated well if at all and its in a interior space, its effectively electric hot water heating running 24/7 while the air conditioning is running. Not sure what the prior hot water heater was but if it was gas and you shifted to heat pump based unit that would add load.

[funguy11]

I agree rates probably wont go down but the cost of batteries and solar panels might continue to decline if tariffs don't eat away that cost reduction.

battery and solar prices will decline steadily over the next 10 years and solar panel efficiency will continue to climb.

[Ampster]

Unlikely. With utilities getting sued by everyone and their brother for causing fires, and CA utilities having to pay for San Onofre decommissioning - we will be lucky if prices don't rise _too_ fast.

I agree rates probably wont go down but the cost of batteries and solar panels might continue to decline if tariffs don't eat away that cost reduction.

[jflorey2]

Hopefully those prices trickle down to the consumer level in some form or another.

Unlikely. With utilities getting sued by everyone and their brother for causing fires, and CA utilities having to pay for San Onofre decommissioning - we will be lucky if prices don't rise _too_ fast.

[Ampster]

Did you see LA just signed an agreement to buy utility scale solar at 2 cents a watt and to buy battery storage for 1.3 cents a KwH?

Hopefully those prices trickle down to the consumer level in some form or another. LADWP already has lower rates than the surrounding Southern California Edison market. This is an interesting trend which began not too long ago when they walked away from their investment in a coal plant in Arizona.

[J.P.M.]

There are other reasons for residential solar besides economic. People want the security of solar + battery knowing that if there is a power outage for an extended time (which is very possible given the state of the US power grid), they and their family will have electricity. Also, solar improves the environment and results in reduced pollution. My friend spent 25k on windows and one of his justifications was the energy saving. Obviously, for him, a purchase of solar panels vs windows would have made more financial sense.

Yes there are, and I'm completely aware of that, probably more than a lot of other folks. But notice my comments were and are specifically referenced to economic/cost effectiveness issues.

[funguy11]

For $21,000 I basically paid for 100% of my electric needs for a 3100 sqft house in an area that can reach over 110 degrees and driving 40,000 miles a year where gas is $4 a gallon. Even California policies favor the wealthy by being able to afford this huge cost cutting measure.

Did you see LA just signed an agreement to buy utility scale solar at 2 cents a watt and to buy battery storage for 1.3 cents a KwH?