How much did I save? How many kWh did we use last month?

[discodanman45]

A 1990's 22 cf fridge uses 850 kWh a year. The top of the line 22 cf energy star fridge uses 425 kWh a year. That top tier energy star rating fridge would cost $1000. Your old fridge would maybe have a $50 selling value. At $0.20 per kWh it would save you $85 per year or 11 years to make back that money. In my area it would take about a 250 watt panel for that extra 425 kWh annual usage. After 30% tax credit, that would work out to be $2 per watt or $500 to run the less efficient refrigerator. The more I look at numbers it makes sense to just throw up extra panels on the roof. Most installers will also give discounts for installing larger systems as well. So that extra panel for that fridge may cost less than you think.

[jflorey2]

Replacing old appliances is expensive and uses more resources to make.

Yep. Same is true of an extra 2kW of solar.

It might be more cost efficient and environmental friendly right now to just install more solar panels and avoid green upgrades.

Maybe - but you have to do the math. And when I've done it in the past, 90% of the time it makes more sense to replace appliances first.

[funguy11]

With the decreasing cost of solar, I am wondering what the price per watt would be for keeping old appliances/windows and just installing more solar. Replacing old appliances is expensive and uses more resources to make. It might be more cost efficient and environmental friendly right now to just install more solar panels and avoid green upgrades. Windows I could see as important because of heat loss and most heaters in my area still use natural gas.

For the majority of people it makes sense to install solar and improve efficiency

[discodanman45]

I'd go a step further and say that conservation and increased efficiency is almost always a better way to save money. Turning off unneeded loads, adding insulation, changing paint/windows, replacing old appliances etc is almost always the best approach at first. And if that doesn't provide enough savings, and they are in a good area for solar, _then_ solar might make sense. (And it will be cheaper to boot since it doesn't have to offset as much load any more.)

With the decreasing cost of solar, I am wondering what the price per watt would be for keeping old appliances/windows and just installing more solar. Replacing old appliances is expensive and uses more resources to make. It might be more cost efficient and environmental friendly right now to just install more solar panels and avoid green upgrades. Windows I could see as important because of heat loss and most heaters in my area still use natural gas.

[bcroe]

I contend, first understand ones energy consumption. Next understand the options to improve
the situation. Then make a plan.

With a plan, no need to wait. This solar will outlive me, every year not operational is permanently
lost benefits. The PV solar might be installed in a few days or weeks, meanwhile appliances and
windows may be replaced, vampire loads tracked down, insulation added over the long term. That
stuff has seriously occupied me for a long time, and will continue. But in the mean time, my heat
and electricity purchases have vanished, my buildings are more comfortable, and I do not worry
about the thermostat setting or certain occupants leaving lights on.

I certainly do not favor just screwing in LEDs or maybe installing solar, with no idea of the energy
use picture or what can be done about it. Nothing is going to be a magic silver bullet. I am actually
dealing with such a situation on one of my volunteer responsibilities, too early to see how it will play out.
Bruce Roe

[jflorey2]

Sounds good, if time stood still. Works well when building that ideal new house with everything
meeting an energy level ideal. BUT here energy conservation improvements have been going
on half a lifetime. If I waited till that was finished, I must be dead. Meanwhile no solar benefits.
There can be many benefits to buying a not so new property.

No one is proposing "wait forever."

Spend money improving efficiency first. Then spend money installing solar, in that order. Doing it in that order maximizes the value of your solar investment. (And in many cases may obviate the need for solar.)

[J.P.M.]

Sounds good, if time stood still. Works well when building that ideal new house with everything
meeting an energy level ideal. BUT here energy conservation improvements have been going
on half a lifetime. If I waited till that was finished, I must be dead. Meanwhile no solar benefits.
There can be many benefits to buying a not so new property.

So instead solar has been watched a long time. When it was ready for prime time, it went in.
I benefit from solar energy, starting from the time it was practical. No going years or decades
without that benefit. Heating with it has allowed me to have one less utility connected to the
place, one less monthly bill with its ever increasing fixed charges before even buying product.

Downside, I bought too much solar? Maybe, but here the amount of DIY action has made that
error not very costly. Technology has allowed use of excess energy for more comfort.
Continuing to work on conservation here. Bruce Roe

The idea is to make an observation: Too much energy being used for any number of reasons, economic, environmental, whatever. Then, set some goals. If one of them is to lower the long term cost of meeting those energy needs, look around/study/get informed of the available means of accomplishing the lower long term cost goal and find the best long term ways to meet that goal, probably in the order of most long term bang for the buck first while keeping other goals in mind.

The way things seem now, and have for some time, is that simply reducing profligate energy use is the single most cost effective measure. After that, conservation measures such as envelope sealing and insulation are usually the next most cost effective measures, probably the lower cost ones like low flow faucets, and LED bulbs first, but not always.

Only after all that, and way down the list are things like PV and other active alternate energy measures. The way things are now, the greenwash media and solar peddlers have B.S.'d a solar and energy ignorant public to throw what's probably the most cost ineffective way to reduce a self inflicted high electric bill - PV - before all the other less cost effective measures, which, if done first, will have the synergistic result of making any subsequent PV less expensive as an up front cost.

Technology is neutral in its results. It can allow LESS energy, not excess energy to be used to provide more comfort. That it can also be used as a means of more energy waste is more of a comment on human laziness and stupidity.

[bcroe]

I'd go a step further and say that conservation and increased efficiency is almost always a better way to save money. Turning off unneeded loads, adding insulation, changing paint/windows, replacing old appliances etc is almost always the best approach at first. And if that doesn't provide enough savings, and they are in a good area for solar, _then_ solar might make sense. (And it will be cheaper to boot since it doesn't have to offset as much load any more.)

Sounds good, if time stood still. Works well when building that ideal new house with everything
meeting an energy level ideal. BUT here energy conservation improvements have been going
on half a lifetime. If I waited till that was finished, I must be dead. Meanwhile no solar benefits.
There can be many benefits to buying a not so new property.

So instead solar has been watched a long time. When it was ready for prime time, it went in.
I benefit from solar energy, starting from the time it was practical. No going years or decades
without that benefit. Heating with it has allowed me to have one less utility connected to the
place, one less monthly bill with its ever increasing fixed charges before even buying product.

Downside, I bought too much solar? Maybe, but here the amount of DIY action has made that
error not very costly. Technology has allowed use of excess energy for more comfort.
Continuing to work on conservation here. Bruce Roe

[discodanman45]

Here is my usage from last month, with the prices I pay per kWh

Net Usage

Peak -229.227940 kWh @$0.49359 -$113.14
Part Peak -221.223700 kWh @$0.26912 -$59.54
Off Peak 897.480340 kWh @$0.12973 $116.43

I received $56.25 credit for 447.03 net used kWh. I love the EV plan for PG&E! I do have to pay $18 for this month in non-bypassable charges, but the credits help me out during the winter. So this month cost me $28 in electricity. In the past for June my electric bill was $450 before solar in EV's. I also spent about $400 in gasoline. My solar covers that $850 typical June cost and I have $56 credit. If you are in with PG&E in California and have a West facing roof, you are truly missing out.

[SunEagle]

We do great in the 7 cooler months, just the brutal summer months running AC constantly runs it up. Wife now works from home so we don't turn it up during the day like we used to.

so far this year, Jan - May (5 months), our Duke bill was the minimum connection fee $10.31; so 10.31 * 5 + 170 / 6 = average bill of $36.93 + loan of about $210 = $246/month. From what I can tell, we save a little each month, about $40.

Sounds like you made a good decision going with solar for your home.

[troup1998]

We do great in the 7 cooler months, just the brutal summer months running AC constantly runs it up. Wife now works from home so we don't turn it up during the day like we used to.

so far this year, Jan - May (5 months), our Duke bill was the minimum connection fee $10.31; so 10.31 * 5 + 170 / 6 = average bill of $36.93 + loan of about $210 = $246/month. From what I can tell, we save a little each month, about $40.

[SunEagle]

Average billing was ~300. Duke lets you pay the same amount each month changing it slightly every quarter. the $542 estimate was a simulated calculation based on total power used, just to see what the bill would have been w/out PV.

I understand. Enjoy your pv system and hopefully Duke won't raise your bill much more.

I was with them for about 7 years before moving to Brooksville and getting WREC for my POCO. My bill is about the same but I use more power now due to having multiple sheds with A/C units. I need to find a way to reduce that power consumption and get back down to < 40kWh per day.

[troup1998]

Average billing was ~300. Duke lets you pay the same amount each month changing it slightly every quarter. the $542 estimate was a simulated calculation based on total power used, just to see what the bill would have been w/out PV.

[troup1998]

we did the following when we installed PV
1. replaced the pool pump with a variable speed pump
2. replaced a 16 yr old hot water heater with a heat pump water heater.
3. added a 'chili pepper' which heats and circulates the water in the pipes so that we don't waste gallons of water waiting for hot water to finally come out.

[SunEagle]

AC in a 3900 sqft home, pool pump running 8+ hours a day + a house full of guests most of May. Before solar (March 2018) our average billing w/Duke Power was $300.

So if your old bill was $300 why would adding solar increase it to $500?