First solar project, Canoe

[TomCat58]

Hello this is my first solar project and I am trying to find the answers to a few questions. Here is what I am working with.


(1) Evergreen 115 watt 12 volt solar panel ( 17.1 volts and 6.73 amps output )
(1) Everstart 144 amp hours @ 1amp deep cycle marine battery 29 series (walmart)
(1) Morningstar prostar 30m (30 amps)
(1) 2000i honda gas generator (8 amp 12 volt charger)

The items to run from the system are:
(4) LED lights Total of 1 amps
(1) Electric boat trolling Motor. Max amps on full throttle is 18 amps. Trolling is about 5 amps.

My questions are:

1. The Prostar 30M has a 30 amp limit and does this mean I can wire the trolling motor through the "Load" on the prostar controller ? or is the battery connection to the trolling motor a better way to go?

2. I found a one sentence remark in the prostar owners manual saying the prostar is protected if a person uses a generator. But do I hook the generator to the solar connection on the Prostar or to the Battery ?

Thanks in advance
Tommy

[Sunking]

My questions are:

1. The Prostar 30M has a 30 amp limit and does this mean I can wire the trolling motor through the "Load" on the prostar controller ? or is the battery connection to the trolling motor a better way to go?

The 30 amp means the highest current the controller can safely deliver to the battery. The maximum amount of current is determined by the panel wattage. Since this is a PWM controller where Input Current = Output Current and you are using a panel with an Imp = 6.7 amps th ehighest charge current to the battery is 6.7 amps. FWIW if you had uysed a MPPT controller with your panel the current would be 9.6 amps.

Now to answer your question you connect the Trolling Motor directly to the battery post like any trolling motor.

2. I found a one sentence remark in the prostar owners manual saying the prostar is protected if a person uses a generator. But do I hook the generator to the solar connection on the Prostar or to the Battery ?

No you plug in a standard 120 volt AC powered battery charger into the generator, and connect the battery charger output directly to the battery post like any battery charger.

[SunEagle]

Hello this is my first solar project and I am trying to find the answers to a few questions. Here is what I am working with.


(1) Evergreen 115 watt 12 volt solar panel ( 17.1 volts and 6.73 amps output )
(1) Everstart 144 amp hours @ 1amp deep cycle marine battery 29 series (walmart)
(1) Morningstar prostar 30m (30 amps)
(1) 2000i honda gas generator (8 amp 12 volt charger)

The items to run from the system are:
(4) LED lights Total of 1 amps
(1) Electric boat trolling Motor. Max amps on full throttle is 18 amps. Trolling is about 5 amps.

My questions are:

1. The Prostar 30M has a 30 amp limit and does this mean I can wire the trolling motor through the "Load" on the prostar controller ? or is the battery connection to the trolling motor a better way to go?


Thanks in advance
Tommy

I would not hook anything more than a small wattage dc light to the "Load" terminals on your controller. It was not designed for any type of heavy load and will certainly burn out if you hook up your trolling motor to it.

Do what Sunking states and hook up your motor to the battery posts.

[TomCat58]

Thanks for the information. The Prostar manual is a bit vague on load details and tech support reply that they had no wiring diagram that would cover what I trying to do. I guess I should have joined this forum before deciding on the prostar 30M. From the spec's in the owners manual it states amps in from solar panels is 30amps max. and also the load states 30 amps max.

Being a novice I thought that meant I could connect the trolling motor to the load. My thoughts were that while on the lake I could see solar amps, battery volts and the load I would be using and at a trolling speed be able to see if the solar panel was keeping up with the load.

Maybe its just me but doesn't hooking the load to the battery defeat the option of reading the "meter load" on the prostar 30M ? That was my plan. WAS being the key word... LOL

I am very interested to know how I could achieve 9+amps from a solar panel that says it puts out 6.7 amps ? hummm I got much to learn !

[Sunking]

I am very interested to know how I could achieve 9+amps from a solar panel that says it puts out 6.7 amps ? hummm I got much to learn !

It is very simple as I already explained.

With PWM Input Current = Output Current. So you have a 115 watt solar panel with a Imp = 6.7 amps. 6.7 in and 6.7 out. Another way to look at it is 17.1 volts @ 6.7 amps input (115 watts) and you get 12 volts @ 6.7 amps out or 80 watts out. With PWM at best you can only get about 66 to 70% efficiency.

MPPT is a power converter where Input Power = Output Power - Conversion Efficiency. Conversion efficiency is around 97%. So that means Input 115 watts = 111 watts Output. Or put another way Input 17.1 volts @ 6.7 amps = 12 volts @ 9.3 amps.

No where is where it gets real interesting. Using your expensive battery panels with your controller I bet your panel cost around $2/watt. To get a full 30 amps would require 5 panels or 575 watts. Panel Cost = $2/watt x 575 = $1150, plus what every you paid for the PWM controller So around $1250 total.

If you bought a 30 amp MPPT controller which would cost you around $300, to get 30 amps out you can use less expensive Grid Tied Panels for around $1/watt and to get 30 amps at 12 volt battery requires only 360 watts of panel power or just 2-180 watt panels wired in series. Panel cost = 180 watts x $1/watt = $360. Add another $300 for the MPPT controller for a total cost of $660.

So you can be a tight wad and buy a cheap PWM controller and to get 30 amps will cost you $1250.

Or buy luxury more expensive MPPT to get 30 amps cost $660.

Lesson being cheap is screwing yourself.

[TomCat58]

Hmmm I think I am beginning to understand the difference a MPPT can make in charging amps. But I only have room for the one solar panel on my canoe which I got for close to nothing. I need to study up on the MPPT option instead of firing 100 question out to the whole forum and making a fool of myself. Be back posting in the next day or so

[TomCat58]

SunEagle I have a question on your comment that the trolling motor will kill the solar controller. I am not arguing ! I am trying to learn. Here is what the manual says under the Protection functions for the Morningstar Prostar solar controller. I asked this same question to Morningstar tech support and never received a clear answer. Second to last protection is voltage spikes. is that what your thinking will destroy the controller ?

Electronic Protections

Short-circuit — solar and load
Overload — solar and load
Reverse polarity
Blocks reverse current at night
High voltage disconnect
High temperature disconnect
Lightning and transient surge protection
Loads protected from voltage spikes
Automatic recovery with all protections

[SunEagle]

SunEagle I have a question on your comment that the trolling motor will kill the solar controller. I am not arguing ! I am trying to learn. Here is what the manual says under the Protection functions for the Morningstar Prostar solar controller. I asked this same question to Morningstar tech support and never received a clear answer. Second to last protection is voltage spikes. is that what your thinking will destroy the controller ?

Electronic Protections

Short-circuit — solar and load
Overload — solar and load
Reverse polarity
Blocks reverse current at night
High voltage disconnect
High temperature disconnect
Lightning and transient surge protection
Loads protected from voltage spikes
Automatic recovery with all protections

Most charge controllers have a set of "load" terminals. They usually have a very low amp rating of < 5. You mentioned your motor can draw much more than that so the chances are you will overload the controller.

Now the Morningstar is a quality charger so according to your information it seems they may have installed short circuit and overload protection for their "load" terminals which is good. Other cheaper controllers do not and therefore overloading that output could cause the controller to fail.

It looks like your Morningstar would just shut down if the "load" output was over its rating and then reset to be used once the over load is removed.

I was trying to save you some heartache in case your controller did not have that type of overload protection. Looks like I was being over cautious.

[Naptown]

you have got to post a picture of this when it is done.
I probably would opt for a Jon boat and use the panels for a sun awning but that's just me.

[TomCat58]

SunEagle, Thanks for the feed back. Your right if there is a spike/surge from the minn kota then I does seem it will not hurt the Prostar 30 amp controller BUT it will disconnect. So it brings up the question of is there a way to stop the surge ? I read some where that a diode would stop the current from going backwards to the controller. I don't know were find or were to install something like this but I am sure interested to learn and included it in the wiring harness.

Does anyone have this information and do you care to share where I can purchase this type of surge protector ? I already have a inline 20 amp fuse on the 10 awg wire from the controler load to the kinn kota trolling motor. But then again that fuse would just shut the power off and not fix the problem.

The boat is already built and it gets a lot of interest when I take it out on the near by lakes. I will take some pictures and post when I get the bugs worked out of the solar system

[SunEagle]

SunEagle, Thanks for the feed back. Your right if there is a spike/surge from the minn kota then I does seem it will not hurt the Prostar 30 amp controller BUT it will disconnect. So it brings up the question of is there a way to stop the surge ? I read some where that a diode would stop the current from going backwards to the controller. I don't know were find or were to install something like this but I am sure interested to learn and included it in the wiring harness.

Does anyone have this information and do you care to share where I can purchase this type of surge protector ? I already have a inline 20 amp fuse on the 10 awg wire from the controler load to the kinn kota trolling motor. But then again that fuse would just shut the power off and not fix the problem.

The boat is already built and it gets a lot of interest when I take it out on the near by lakes. I will take some pictures and post when I get the bugs worked out of the solar system

It is not a surge that is causing the Prostar to disconnect. It is an overload condition. The "load" output is not rated 30amp like the battery output. Your motor can draw up to 18amp which is more than the "load" output can handle.

The only way to power your motor is by connecting it to the battery terminals. You can add an inline fuse to protect the wiring and motor.

This type of wiring is typical for an "off grid" solar system. The panels are wired to the controller which is then wired to the batteries. If you want to develop a 120v AC circuit you would wire an Inverter to the battery. If you want to run a DC voltage piece of equipment (like your motor) you wire that to the battery.

I just checked an add for the Prostar PS30 charge controller and it does have the "load" rated at 30 amps so I may be wrong with my earlier assumption that there is an over load condition. Although I do not know what the inrush amperage the motor draws on start up and it may exceed the 30 amp overload trip point that is protecting your controller.

[TomCat58]

SunEagle, Yes its rated for a 30amp load and Morningstar says it is capable of a 25% over load too. I have read the current draw on the trolling motor with a DC clamp and saw no surge or spike with a 18 to 20 amp draw at full throttle. All I know is if I can't get the trolling motor to work through this Prostar 30 amp load controller ! I will probable send it back for a refund and switch over to the MPPT unit to gain charging amps.

The whole point of using the Prostar 30M for me was it has all these protections built in and this Meter version show's solar charge amps, Battery volts and Load amps all the time with just a glance. The boat will be turning towards and away from the sun and I wanted to experience solar charging in hopes of trolling on the same amp draw as the solar puts out. The clamp meter showed a smooth zero to 18 amp draw on full throttle but maybe thats because its the NEW digital pulse trolling motor ? It made sense when I started the project but has turned into a can of worms now ! LOL I am still have fun on this big learning curve

Hey I told you folks I was a novice rookie so please work with me Reference below for the 30 amp draw and 25% over load function.

http://www.morningstarcorp.com/en/pro-star

[SunEagle]

SunEagle, Yes its rated for a 30amp load and Morningstar says it is capable of a 25% over load too. I have read the current draw on the trolling motor with a DC clamp and saw no surge or spike with a 18 to 20 amp draw at full throttle. All I know is if I can't get the trolling motor to work through this Prostar 30 amp load controller ! I will probable send it back for a refund and switch over to the MPPT unit to gain charging amps.

The whole point of using the Prostar 30M for me was it has all these protections built in and this Meter version show's solar charge amps, Battery volts and Load amps all the time with just a glance. The boat will be turning towards and away from the sun and I wanted to experience solar charging in hopes of trolling on the same amp draw as the solar puts out. The clamp meter showed a smooth zero to 18 amp draw on full throttle but maybe thats because its the NEW digital pulse trolling motor ? It made sense when I started the project but has turned into a can of worms now ! LOL I am still have fun on this big learning curve

Hey I told you folks I was a novice rookie so please work with me Reference below for the 30 amp draw and 25% over load function.

http://www.morningstarcorp.com/en/pro-star

Well if it isn't any overload condition it might be an under-voltage condition which is noted in your link. It might be that the panel is not producing enough voltage to keep the motor running which is why it is stopping. Having the motor connected to the battery will remove this issue.

[TomCat58]

I have not tried the motor hooked to the load yet. I have run and tested amp draw while its connected from the Battery. BUT as I have done online research I have come across the statement that I can't run the trolling motor from the load and am now asking why not ? As you said before this controller spec's look to support my 18 amp draw.

When I asked Morningstar Prostar tech's if I can run it on the Load they don't answer yes or no... I understand a fridge motor has a big draw on amps to start up but this motor doesn't seem to have that draw. The only thing I can think of is the old trolling motors spike. OR I have not encounter a spike yet ?

I have asked the Morningstar tech's if there is a way to protect the controller from possible spikes and they don't reply back. Like I said I am new to all this so I am asking the question before I run it through the load instead of after if I blow up the controller. So to me either the statements are wrong on I can't run it on the Load output on the controller or Morningstar prostar 30M is making claims that are not true ? I might have to just go for it to find out because morningstar is not talking !!! Not talking so far that is but maybe they read this forum ?

[SunEagle]

I have not tried the motor hooked to the load yet. I have run and tested amp draw while its connected from the Battery. BUT as I have done online research I have come across the statement that I can't run the trolling motor from the load and am now asking why not ? As you said before this controller spec's look to support my 18 amp draw.

When I asked Morningstar Prostar tech's if I can run it on the Load they don't answer yes or no... I understand a fridge motor has a big draw on amps to start up but this motor doesn't seem to have that draw. The only thing I can think of is the old trolling motors spike. OR I have not encounter a spike yet ?

I have asked the Morningstar tech's if there is a way to protect the controller from possible spikes and they don't reply back. Like I said I am new to all this so I am asking the question before I run it through the load instead of after if I blow up the controller. So to me either the statements are wrong on I can't run it on the Load output on the controller or Morningstar prostar 30M is making claims that are not true ? I might have to just go for it to find out because morningstar is not talking !!! Not talking so far that is but maybe they read this forum ?

The Prostar may be able to handle the motor without any oveloading conditions but as I pointed out if the panel is not in sunshine or is in reduced sunlight the output may drop below the 12 volts needed to run the motor. It may just be better to connect the motor to the battery for continuous operation.