First solar project, Canoe

[TomCat58]

Has the idea of a small steam turbine generator passed your thought? There are lots of wood in the river banks to fuel-up your generator.

No I had not thought about steam power. It would be interesting to research it some. Not for my canoe solar project but as another source of power if the lights go out or a remote cabin.

I guess with no more replies on the best solar controller for my two solar panel I am already looking at the best one on the market for my system. The Morningstar trackstar 15 amp mppt unit.

[axis11]

Has the idea of a small steam turbine generator passed your thought? There are lots of wood in the river banks to fuel-up your generator.

[SunEagle]

You might want to consider the simplest form of the three Laws of Thermodynamics:
1. You can't win.
2. You can't even break even
3. You can't get out of the game.

Nothing that extracts energy from motion that you supplied the energy to create in the first place can produce as much energy as it costs you to run it.
Even if you go to the extreme of only running the turbine when you are coasting downhill, you will get less energy than you could get from regenerative braking instead.

I hate the laws of Thermo.

Oh well I wasn't looking for perfection or even high efficiency. Just trying to think of a way to capture some of the energy from the movement of the car and convert it to back into a little battery charging like the regen braking

Thanks for the info and also thanks for not dumping on me for it being such a really dumb idea.

[inetdog]

Hummm I guess I better work on getting a sunsaver mppt 15 amp controller instead. 25 to 30 percent more energy from the existing solar panels sounds good to me The morningstar 15 amp trackstar looks to be a very good choice. Do any of you folks know of any other controllers in this class I should be considering ?

Wait Wait we didn't bring up hydro power ? I was on a moving river so that might work ? Just joking hahahahaha

It could just work if you anchor in midstream for the night and put out a several foot radius low velocity turbine.

[TomCat58]

If you put the wind generator on the boat and moored it far enough offshore that it got undisturbed wind, maybe. You would be shaking the canoe pretty badly though, and potentially interfering with your sleep. The amount of power would be small compared to the solar contribution.

Hummm I guess I better work on getting a sunsaver mppt 15 amp controller instead. 25 to 30 percent more energy from the existing solar panels sounds good to me The morningstar 15 amp trackstar looks to be a very good choice. Do any of you folks know of any other controllers in this class I should be considering ?

Wait Wait we didn't bring up hydro power ? I was on a moving river so that might work ? Just joking hahahahaha

[Sunking]

I guess what I was thinking was to use the wind turbine to help charge the battery on a hybrid car for extended driving which would happen on a long trip at highway speeds.

Unfortunately that will not work. That would mean above unity gain aka perpetual motion machine.

[inetdog]

I guess what I was thinking was to use the wind turbine to help charge the battery on a hybrid car for extended driving which would happen on a long trip at highway speeds. At lower speeds the battery would be used or in most hybrid cars some other form of generating energy to charge the battery. The turbine wouldn't be the prime source of rechaging but I thought useful at higher speeds then running a gas engine. Just thinking out loud.

You might want to consider the simplest form of the three Laws of Thermodynamics:
1. You can't win.
2. You can't even break even
3. You can't get out of the game.

Nothing that extracts energy from motion that you supplied the energy to create in the first place can produce as much energy as it costs you to run it.
Even if you go to the extreme of only running the turbine when you are coasting downhill, you will get less energy than you could get from regenerative braking instead.

[bcroe]

I guess what I was thinking was to use the wind turbine to help charge the battery on a hybrid car for extended driving which would happen on a long trip at highway speeds. At lower speeds the battery would be used or in most hybrid cars some other form of generating energy to charge the battery. The turbine wouldn't be the prime source of rechaging but I thought useful at higher speeds then running a gas engine. Just thinking out loud.

Perhaps its not a perpetual motion machine, because you are trying to GAIN
energy. Has even less chance of success. Bruce Roe

[SunEagle]

The main reasons that it has not, AFAIK, been done include:

1. Useless at speeds less than 30 MPH if it is going to be controllable at 60 MPH.
2. Takes up too much space.
3. Cannot deliver high power, high current charge immediately right after staring the engine.
4. Does not work to keep the headlights, heater, etc. going when you are parked or stuck in traffic.
5. Efficiency.

Number 5 is the real killer. Any change to the airflow around the car that will let the turbine produce power will cost you several times that (or more) in added engine power to maintain the ground speed of the car. The admittedly imperfect alternator driven by the engine is a much more efficient use of fuel, since you do not have the worse wind turbine inefficiency AND you are taking the power from the engine before the losses in the drive train including automatic transmission.

I guess what I was thinking was to use the wind turbine to help charge the battery on a hybrid car for extended driving which would happen on a long trip at highway speeds. At lower speeds the battery would be used or in most hybrid cars some other form of generating energy to charge the battery. The turbine wouldn't be the prime source of rechaging but I thought useful at higher speeds then running a gas engine. Just thinking out loud.

[inetdog]

I guess it is possible to charge the canoe batteries while I was camped on shore of the windy Columbia River One night was pretty windy. The sun goes down and the wind generator keeps charging. I have no idea if it would work very well or even be worth it BUT it does sound possible hummmm lol

If you put the wind generator on the boat and moored it far enough offshore that it got undisturbed wind, maybe. You would be shaking the canoe pretty badly though, and potentially interfering with your sleep. The amount of power would be small compared to the solar contribution.

[inetdog]

I always wondered why someone hadn't come up with a forced air turbine to generate battery charge power. I felt that air channeled through a car while it is moving at highway speeds would be a good use of "free" energy. I guess the design not happening might have to do with the size of the turbine and the amount of output it can provide but I really like the idea.

The main reasons that it has not, AFAIK, been done include:

1. Useless at speeds less than 30 MPH if it is going to be controllable at 60 MPH.
2. Takes up too much space.
3. Cannot deliver high power, high current charge immediately right after staring the engine.
4. Does not work to keep the headlights, heater, etc. going when you are parked or stuck in traffic.
5. Efficiency.

Number 5 is the real killer. Any change to the airflow around the car that will let the turbine produce power will cost you several times that (or more) in added engine power to maintain the ground speed of the car. The admittedly imperfect alternator driven by the engine is a much more efficient use of fuel, since you do not have the worse wind turbine inefficiency AND you are taking the power from the engine before the losses in the drive train including automatic transmission.

[TomCat58]

I guess it is possible to charge the canoe batteries while I was camped on shore of the windy Columbia River One night was pretty windy. The sun goes down and the wind generator keeps charging. I have no idea if it would work very well or even be worth it BUT it does sound possible hummmm lol

[SunEagle]

That idea is right up there with using a wind turbine on a moving car to supplement the engine power.

I always wondered why someone hadn't come up with a forced air turbine to generate battery charge power. I felt that air channeled through a car while it is moving at highway speeds would be a good use of "free" energy. I guess the design not happening might have to do with the size of the turbine and the amount of output it can provide but I really like the idea.

[TomCat58]

That idea is right up there with using a wind turbine on a moving car to supplement the engine power.
The water turbines are very good when your motive force is free (wind in the case of a sailboat) and you want to get some small amount of power without having to run an engine.

A better comparison would be the Ram Air Turbine (RAT) the provides emergency electricity for an airplane when all of the engines and APU(s) fail at the same time. Gravity provides the electrical power then, but it will not let the plane climb on electric power.

Ah I haven't tried wind power yet. Or maybe I have? Some say I am full of hot air lol

[inetdog]

The is a water turbine that will turn as you move forward which is quite. Although you will probably have to run your trolling motor pretty fast to get enough forward motion to generate anything.

Just a thought while you are thinking of options.

That idea is right up there with using a wind turbine on a moving car to supplement the engine power.
The water turbines are very good when your motive force is free (wind in the case of a sailboat) and you want to get some small amount of power without having to run an engine.

A better comparison would be the Ram Air Turbine (RAT) the provides emergency electricity for an airplane when all of the engines and APU(s) fail at the same time. Gravity provides the electrical power then, but it will not let the plane climb on electric power.