Off grid solar with plan to power an electric car

[SunEagle]

$15K will not get you very far with a solar PV system. Panels are cheap, but controllers, inverters and the batteries that go bad after 3-8 years, the $15K to run grid power is a bargain.
Going off-grid never saves money because of the reoccurring battery costs.

It is sad to say the most people think that an up front cost of $15k to run the grid to their home seems very high, they just don't understand that to build a solar / battery system will cost at least $2000 per kWh. And a home can easily use more than 10kWh a day which calculates out to $20,000 for a system that needs new batteries in a few years and is thousands more than just installing grid power.

[cebury]

It is sad to say the most people think that an up front cost of $15k to run the grid to their home seems very high, they just don't understand that to build a solar / battery system will cost at least $2000 per kWh. And a home can easily use more than 10kWh a day which calculates out to $20,000 for a system that needs new batteries in a few years and is thousands more than just installing grid power.

True but this case does sound different. It sounds like a true off grid, nearly non-electric lifestyle already. So by adding a small system enough to cover Winter, he is estimating (incorrectly?) he will have lots of extra kwh spare in Summer they can charge the EV, not use the PV as the primary charging source year round. I would normally say the OPs family really doesnt know what they are asking for nor what the lifestyle requires, but they have lived it already for at least a portion of the year. I do wonder if they really want another active management appliance with the solar and batteries, using it in this manner makes it even more work.

I can understand reluctance to pay 15k to bring utility to draw a mere handful of kwh per month. But the alternative isnt much better and adding utility adds lots of value to the home, at a minimum increasing your buyers pool exponentially. And that handful of kwh can certainly explode with the children's (and elderly) arrival seeking creature comfort unless everyone has adopted the hippie, commune, Amish, I mean off-grid lifestyle with zero electrical appliances. Not that there is anything wrong with that...

[SunEagle]

True but this case does sound different. It sounds like a true off grid, nearly non-electric lifestyle already. So by adding a small system enough to cover Winter, he is estimating (incorrectly?) he will have lots of extra kwh spare in Summer they can charge the EV, not use the PV as the primary charging source year round. I would normally say the OPs family really doesnt know what they are asking for nor what the lifestyle requires, but they have lived it already for at least a portion of the year. I do wonder if they really want another active management appliance with the solar and batteries, using it in this manner makes it even more work.

I can understand reluctance to pay 15k to bring utility to draw a mere handful of kwh per month. But the alternative isnt much better and adding utility adds lots of value to the home, at a minimum increasing your buyers pool exponentially. And that handful of kwh can certainly explode with the children's (and elderly) arrival seeking creature comfort unless everyone has adopted the hippie, commune, Amish, I mean off-grid lifestyle with zero electrical appliances. Not that there is anything wrong with that...

All true. If someone is already comfortable using a small fraction of power (then the average person) then living off grid is not as hard as you can imagine. Yet when someone states they now want to add the charging ability of an EV to their off grid solar system I start to wonder what they are thinking and do they really know what they are getting into especially when grid power would be much cheaper in the long run.

It is one thing to live in a Yurt with minimal electrical needs but to add an electric driven vehicle seems contradictory to me of a simple life style.

Go simple or go high tech but you have to pay the price for that tech.

[J.P.M.]

All true. If someone is already comfortable using a small fraction of power (then the average person) then living off grid is not as hard as you can imagine. Yet when someone states they now want to add the charging ability of an EV to their off grid solar system I start to wonder what they are thinking and do they really know what they are getting into especially when grid power would be much cheaper in the long run.

It is one thing to live in a Yurt with minimal electrical needs but to add an electric driven vehicle seems contradictory to me of a simple life style.

Go simple or go high tech but you have to pay the price for that tech.

Maybe it would be helpful in the decision making process if the OP had a better understanding of the limitations and cost/installed STC kW of off grid PV generated power, vs. an ICE alternative.

[SunEagle]

Maybe it would be helpful in the decision making process if the OP had a better understanding of the limitations and cost/installed STC kW of off grid PV generated power, vs. an ICE alternative.

Maybe that would help the OP but IMO it looks like they have minimized the cost of going totally off grid which may include a high load EV added to the mix.

If you remember the cost of the wind/solar system by Chris up in Wisconsin, he spent close to $100k and still took his boat South during the winter because he could not self generate enough power to live comfortably on.

Sure I would love to get rid of my ICE vehicles and go to pure EV transportation but at present the cost of an extended range EV is pretty high let alone charging it from solar.

The idea seems like a pipe dream for the upper 1%. IMO it is not going to happen for me or most other private citizens unless the systems are given away.

[J.P.M.]

Maybe that would help the OP but IMO it looks like they have minimized the cost of going totally off grid which may include a high load EV added to the mix.

If you remember the cost of the wind/solar system by Chris up in Wisconsin, he spent close to $100k and still took his boat South during the winter because he could not self generate enough power to live comfortably on.

Sure I would love to get rid of my ICE vehicles and go to pure EV transportation but at present the cost of an extended range EV is pretty high let alone charging it from solar.

The idea seems like a pipe dream for the upper 1%. IMO it is not going to happen for me or most other private citizens unless the systems are given away.

Pertty much agree. My point, which was poorly made, was that lots of folks could save themselves a lot of effort and $ by getting more informed and being less gullible.

[jflorey2]

Great. I am impressed. Looks like new technology is being introduced.Question would be how much for that charger and how big a solar array wattage do you need to charge an EV?

Just a note on that device -
It's just an EVSE and a grid tie inverter in the same box. No additional functionality, like direct solar to EV without a grid. The only reason it's useful is that you need only one breaker space rather than two.

[NEOH]

$15K will not get you very far with a solar PV system. Panels are cheap, but controllers, inverters and the batteries that go bad after 3-8 years, the $15K to run grid power is a bargain.
Going off-grid never saves money because of the reoccurring battery costs.

Mike,

But did you read ...
a) They estimate usage at 0.250 KWHr per day ?
b) They estimate the PV Array at 2KW ?

This setup is really small.

Estimate at $3.00 per Watt x 2,000 Watts = $6,000 PV Array
$15,000 - $6,000 leaves $9,000 for Battery Bank

4 x Trojan T105-RE = 24 Volt Bank @ $600 every 5 years

$9,000 remaining, is a lifetime of batteries

Electric Grid is $15,000 up-front, plus $600 per year
In 20 years that is $27,000 Total

2.3KW Midnight Solar "Tiny House" Off-Grid = $4,500 ...
https://www.bluepacificsolar.com/mid...3kw-micro.html
Just add roof mount or ground mount and 4 batteries.

[kb58]

Mike,

But did you read ...
a) They estimate usage at 0.250 KWHr per day ?....

But the OP wants to also charge an EV, which greatly increase the above usage rate.

[SunEagle]

Mike,

But did you read ...
a) They estimate usage at 0.250 KWHr per day ?
b) They estimate the PV Array at 2KW ?

This setup is really small.

Estimate at $3.00 per Watt x 2,000 Watts = $6,000 PV Array
$15,000 - $6,000 leaves $9,000 for Battery Bank

4 x Trojan T105-RE = 24 Volt Bank @ $600 every 5 years

$9,000 remaining, is a lifetime of batteries

Electric Grid is $15,000 up-front, plus $600 per year
In 20 years that is $27,000 Total

2.3KW Midnight Solar "Tiny House" Off-Grid = $4,500 ...
https://www.bluepacificsolar.com/mid...3kw-micro.html
Just add roof mount or ground mount and 4 batteries.

I see where the OP estimated only 250 watt hours per day but IMO that is very low and more than likely inaccurate unless they have very few electrical devices.

As I stated most homes will use on average at least 10kWh a day if they are only a couple hundred square feet in size. If they have major appliances like AC, electric stove, electric water heater, cloths dryer to name a few they will more than likely use much more than 10kWh let alone only using 250 watt hours a day.

[NEOH]

But the OP wants to also charge an EV, which greatly increase the above usage rate.

No the OP said, "In a few YEARS - use any excess energy to charge the EV".
He stated, they have offsite Grid available for charging the EV.

[NEOH]

I see where the OP estimated only 250 watt hours per day but IMO that is very low and more than likely inaccurate unless they have very few electrical devices.

As I stated most homes will use on average at least 10kWh a day if they are only a couple hundred square feet in size. If they have major appliances like AC, electric stove, electric water heater, cloths dryer to name a few they will more than likely use much more than 10kWh let alone only using 250 watt hours a day.

Instead of assuming they do, why don't you ask him if they have those appliances or not?

[SunEagle]

Instead of assuming they do, why don't you ask him if they have those appliances or not?

You are correct I am presuming that anyone that decided to go with an EV technology will also have other appliances. If they don't then they may well use very little electricity per day.

On the other hand if they plan on an EV in a "few years" then maybe they should wait to build their off grid system for the EV when they actually will need more power. Until then it would be a complete waste of money to be able to charge an EV from solar but not need it.

[Raul]

I think some of you in here can't adjust to the idea that in diferent parts of the world is not America. You guys quote some mind bogging numbers that have no bearing in other parts on the planet.

[adoublee]

Just a note on that device -
It's just an EVSE and a grid tie inverter in the same box. No additional functionality, like direct solar to EV without a grid. The only reason it's useful is that you need only one breaker space rather than two.

They also say it will combine power of the grid feed and the solar for a higher charge rate than available from the grid circuit connecting it.