Fridge / freezers

[Sunking]

As I understand it, the problem is being tied to the grid. Something about being dependent. My step-son worked on an Amish farm for awhile and they were all about battery banks, PV panels, and generators.

That means they are paying 10 to 20 more for electricity than they have to.

[Naptown]

That means they are paying 10 to 20 more for electricity than they have to.

But think of what they are saving in gasoline! Their vehicles are only 1 HP.

Actually in some of the shops (woodworking) the saws and tools are run from compressed air driven by a big diesel compressor.

[bonaire]

That means they are paying 10 to 20 more for electricity than they have to.

Not entirely. they crowd source things and do a lot of the work themselves. They also do good work. Think of a PV system installed without all the labor costs. So it's parts and time. Probably $2.50/Watt if solar before incentives (they're able to take the tax credit and other state-stuff too). A few Amish farms near me have small windmills, some have solar, and they utilize batteries for chilling milk before it is delivered to the milk trucks daily. Compared to the .167/kWh utility rate we have - not too bad. They also use propane for things like refrigeration and lighting in workshops.

I don't know why they don't want to be part of the "larger community" but perhaps they don't trust "us"? Given a war or some other outside Force Majeur, which could take their whole community off the grid, I guess they consider a farm as a working independent entity which should be self-sustaining based on the family unit.

The guys who built my shed were mainly Amish with Mennonite company owners. The top of their building was full of Solar PV - installed by who ended up being my installer, also Mennonite. I believe that my install helped him finish his at-home install at a decent rate since the modules that I ordered were part of an order that included modules and inverters for his new home. The Mennonite and Amish keep spectacularly nice-looking homes because they're not cluttered full of electric and other junk that we "English" use. If it wasn't for my family situation, I wouldn't mind living "like the Amish" for the most part. My mother was a bit of a hermit and hobby farmer herself and her monthly electric bill showed about 180kWh or less for a 2400 sq. ft. house.


THIS: http://news.yahoo.com/bulgaria-gover...073220738.html
is the type of reason the Amish want to stay off grid and away from the national government.

[dkpro1]

Enough is Enough, base price on a sunfrost fridge/ freezer 3000 dollars.
Last word on the subject from me.
Dave H.

enough for me Avanti 7.1 cf fridge 300.00
500 watts solar 375.00
800 watt inverter 100.00
2 t105's 250.00


and no 4.00 a gallon lp

[dieseldawg]

Solar needs no fuel, that's why

All of the LPG delivery problems vanish with solar powered refrigeration, or solar powered anything for that matter. Yes, the initial cost is high, but after that, no fuel costs, no fuel delivery problems, and much less energy consumption. A 12vdc compressor refrigerator uses one tenth the energy of an absorption (LPG) powered unit. If properly designed and maintained, the solar powered system requires no fuel or major expense for the life of the batteries, which can exceed 10 years. It is a perfect solution where fuel delivery can be difficult, such as long maritime voyages.

[russ]

All of the LPG delivery problems vanish with solar powered refrigeration, or solar powered anything for that matter. Yes, the initial cost is high, but after that, no fuel costs, no fuel delivery problems, and much less energy consumption. A 12vdc compressor refrigerator uses one tenth the energy of an absorption (LPG) powered unit. If properly designed and maintained, the solar powered system requires no fuel or major expense for the life of the batteries, which can exceed 10 years. It is a perfect solution where fuel delivery can be difficult, such as long maritime voyages.

Please explain further - so far it sounds like 2$ worth of blather in a 1$ bag. It sounds like you are arguing for a battery based system?

[Leehamrick]

Preppers like the solar power because they believe that if something happens like the collapse of the dollar
you're not going to be able to get fuel of any kind for a while.

I live in the sticks and I like using solar power it's a great back up when the grid goes down
we lose electric on a regular basis here. I have a generator but that's a pain in the butt
I like this better No gas to buy, No cords to run, No going outside to try and start a generator at -0
"Just flip a switch" Oh Yea,, no bill comes in the mail

[SunEagle]

Preppers like the solar power because they believe that if something happens like the collapse of the dollar
you're not going to be able to get fuel of any kind for a while.

I live in the sticks and I like using solar power it's a great back up when the grid goes down
we lose electric on a regular basis here. I have a generator but that's a pain in the butt
I like this better No gas to buy, No cords to run, No going outside to try and start a generator at -0
"Just flip a switch" Oh Yea,, no bill comes in the mail

And when your batteries die and they are no longer being made due to a collapsed economy what are you going to do?

Batteries like fossil fuel have to be manufactured. If the collapse happens then we will all be living a life similar to the days of horse and buggy before the electric light bulb.

[russ]

And when your batteries die and they are no longer being made due to a collapsed economy what are you going to do?

Batteries like fossil fuel have to be manufactured. If the collapse happens then we will all be living a life similar to the days of horse and buggy before the electric light bulb.

That is the truth no matter how much people like to think they are special or they have a "scheme".

[SunEagle]

That is the truth no matter how much people like to think they are special or they have a "scheme".

My plan is to move to a nuclear generating station. At least there will be power for a while.

[russ]

My plan is to move to a nuclear generating station. At least there will be power for a while.

Or at least everyone will glow in the dark so seeing at night won't be a problem?

[thastinger]

That is the truth no matter how much people like to think they are special or they have a "scheme".

If people are preparing for something, I don't think most are preparing for a "forever" disruption. I think most are planning for 3-5 years and a reset of the norm. I don't think anyone could argue against having the capability to generate some power for use even if it is just one set of batteries worth. What percentage of the population do you think would survive a grid loss scenario? I'd guess maybe 20% and if that number is accurate, there will be alot of unused golf carts, cars and other machines with batteries. 20% of the population would be dead within the first month (everyone on insuline, dependant on caregivers, various medications etc). I think there is plenty of reason for folks to prepare for the unknown.

[SunEagle]

If people are preparing for something, I don't think most are preparing for a "forever" disruption. I think most are planning for 3-5 years and a reset of the norm. I don't think anyone could argue against having the capability to generate some power for use even if it is just one set of batteries worth. What percentage of the population do you think would survive a grid loss scenario? I'd guess maybe 20% and if that number is accurate, there will be alot of unused golf carts, cars and other machines with batteries. 20% of the population would be dead within the first month (everyone on insuline, dependant on caregivers, various medications etc). I think there is plenty of reason for folks to prepare for the unknown.

You are probably close to your estimate of 20% of the total populace surviving but I think there will be more than 20% dead in the first month. You forget about the other 80% that won't go down without fighting. When the smoke clears (figure of speech because the fires will continue to burn for a long time) most of those batteries will be useless due to inactivity.

With the majority of the people gone so will manufacturing. A 3-5 years time frame before a "reset" to normal is probably off by a few hundred years. As for wanting to live in a world where I have lost most of my loved ones and where every day is a day of just trying to stay alive... you can have it.

[russ]

You are probably close to your estimate of 20% of the total populace surviving but I think there will be more than 20% dead in the first month. You forget about the other 80% that won't go down without fighting. When the smoke clears (figure of speech because the fires will continue to burn for a long time) most of those batteries will be useless due to inactivity.

With the majority of the people gone so will manufacturing. A 3-5 years time frame before a "reset" to normal is probably off by a few hundred years. As for wanting to live in a world where I have lost most of my loved ones and where every day is a day of just trying to stay alive... you can have it.

An Inconvenient Truth!

[SunEagle]

An Inconvenient Truth!

Maybe I am way off with my perspective of what may happen after a total melt down but I would rather spend my time and energy making my world a better place to live then building a hole in the ground and hoping there is something left when I crawl out.