CCA verses RC

[Mike90250]

That link doesn't resemble anything you posted. You said it was their words, I just wanted to see them, since I searched and couldn't find them. Where do they mention " Hybrid Batteries " being what you posted ??

WillyT,

http://batterycouncil.org/?page=Lead_Acid_Batteries#kinds

There are also batteries designed to serve a balanced combination of starting and deep cycle service. These batteries are referred to as dual purpose. The have high starting power for engine cranking but also built to withstand the cycle service demands from multiple accessory loads.

Dual Purpose
combination
hybrid is also a valid moniker. It resembles it pretty closely. chimera could also work. Get a thesaurus.

[inetdog]

The differences among the several types of batteries are both chemical and physical.
The physical part is the easiest to understand.
SLI: To have a low internal series resistance, and therefore deliver massive current to operate a starter motor, the battery needs to have multiple thin plates with a spongy surface (lots of area) and internal connectors that can handle high current over a short time.
If cycled many times the plates lose the high area structure and processes that erode active material off the plates will leave nothing behind, ending the battery life.

Deep Cycle, RE: These batteries have more lead to provide a stable framework for fewer heavier plates. There is more active material on the plates, but in a more solid structure that can handle multiple cycles of removal and re-deposit of active material without loss of capacity due to structural changes.

Hybrid are in between on the differing characteristics.

On the chemical side, the plate material will use different lead alloys, depending on the characteristics desired. And the composition of the electrolyte will also vary, particularly in AGM type sealed batteries.

[inetdog]

ok , so does this mean bala was right when he told me the "marine batteries" i bought are just SLI with a "marine battery" sticker on it? they list CCA and RC but not AH although the rc is higher than other SLI batteries with similar CCA ratings

Some of the differences in "marine" batteries are irrelevant to the SLI versus RE dichotomy.
A marine battery will typically have an easier means to lift and carry it, as well as caps that are more resistant to spilling when the battery is tipped and shaken. (Think rolling boat in a storm). They may also be more robustly built to withstand vibration, etc. Within those construction parameters, you can still build the internal parts differently to produce high current, low cycle or low current high cycle batteries.

[Living Large]

thats an excellent battery bank you bought, i checked out your link on another thread , they weigh 160kgs each? but you spent $7000 and even if they last 10yrs its still $700 a year plus interest forfeited, im looking for a way much cheaper than that. found some junked sealed batteries the other day. will try an equalize on them but will do it outside in case of any explosions. the way i see it, if i can get serviceable L.A. batteries for next to nothing, regardless of the type, then i will have my free sun power

Maybe there needs to be a "Budget Solar Power" forum. Periodically, someone shows up who wants to run a solar system on the cheap. Using junked batteries and "free sun power" would fit that description.

I am looking at what you may call an "excellent battery bank" - an LFP bank. But I need an excellent bank for low sun hours. If I don't get an excellent bank, I'm going to be spending half or more of my time helping my solar system do its job, which is too much user intervention.

[Sunking]

ok , so does this mean bala was right when he told me the "marine batteries" i bought are just SLI with a "marine battery" sticker on it? they list CCA and RC but not AH although the rc is higher than other SLI batteries with similar CCA ratings

From what you describe is a Marine Grade SLI battery vs Automotive SLI battery. Not having AH specified is my clue. Marine starting batteries are built tough and in such a way the pounding they receive while in operation will not cause the plates to deform and short out..

[almac]

Maybe there needs to be a "Budget Solar Power" forum. Periodically, someone shows up who wants to run a solar system on the cheap. Using junked batteries and "free sun power" would fit that description.

I am looking at what you may call an "excellent battery bank" - an LFP bank. But I need an excellent bank for low sun hours. If I don't get an excellent bank, I'm going to be spending half or more of my time helping my solar system do its job, which is too much user intervention.

what is your latitude? if you live in a high latitude why bother with solar during the winter at all? way to expensive for all the panels and batteries you need for rapid charging. just use a summer solar setup, fewer panels and less expensive batteries. in the winter use the gen to top up the batteries. thats what iv learnt at latitude 33 deg south

[almac]

From what you describe is a Marine Grade SLI battery vs Automotive SLI battery. Not having AH specified is my clue. Marine starting batteries are built tough and in such a way the pounding they receive while in operation will not cause the plates to deform and short out..

ok well it does have a larger RC than other auto batteries with the same CCA. does that say anything about the design? anyway will find out how long these batteries last , matter of time.

[Sunking]

ok well it does have a larger RC than other auto batteries with the same CCA. does that say anything about the design? anyway will find out how long these batteries last , matter of time.

Batteries are like most other energy storage and power sources. They can be tuned or manufactured to do specific things better. What you have to remember there are trade-offs that have to be made.

A great example is say a BCI Group 27 which specifies the plastic jar dimensions and term post connectors. You can buy that size in SLI, Dual Purpose (aka hybrid), and Deep Cycle. But let's go with SLI. To have higher CCA, you must sacrifice RC to get it. Each manufacture has their own idea of what it should be, and what market they want to tap. A group 27 CCA can be as low as 500 amps, but has a 4 year warranty with higher RC values because the plates are heavier (more mass). The same group 27 CCA can go as high as 800 amps but warranty is 2 years and RC is much lower because the plates are much thinner and more of them.

You cannot have your cake and eat it too. It is all about Trade-Offs.

[almac]

Batteries are like most other energy storage and power sources. They can be tuned or manufactured to do specific things better. What you have to remember there are trade-offs that have to be made.

A great example is say a BCI Group 27 which specifies the plastic jar dimensions and term post connectors. You can buy that size in SLI, Dual Purpose (aka hybrid), and Deep Cycle. But let's go with SLI. To have higher CCA, you must sacrifice RC to get it. Each manufacture has their own idea of what it should be, and what market they want to tap. A group 27 CCA can be as low as 500 amps, but has a 4 year warranty with higher RC values because the plates are heavier (more mass). The same group 27 CCA can go as high as 800 amps but warranty is 2 years and RC is much lower because the plates are much thinner and more of them.

You cannot have your cake and eat it too. It is all about Trade-Offs.

thanks, then the plates must be a bit thicker on these then. if i get a year out of them i wont complain, they were cheap enough, if more than a year they would be good value, if less than a year its a lesson learnt.

[SunEagle]

Maybe there needs to be a "Budget Solar Power" forum. Periodically, someone shows up who wants to run a solar system on the cheap. Using junked batteries and "free sun power" would fit that description.

I am looking at what you may call an "excellent battery bank" - an LFP bank. But I need an excellent bank for low sun hours. If I don't get an excellent bank, I'm going to be spending half or more of my time helping my solar system do its job, which is too much user intervention.

While I fully subscribe to going to flea markets and garage sales to get "good" deals, I draw the line when it comes to acquiring a quality product because I need to trust that it will work when I ask it.

Going "cheap" seems to be on the mind of most DIY and preppers because that is how they are motivated. Always looking to spend the least amount they can.

If people who parachute out of planes or climbed mountains purchased their equipment second hand or from scrap yards, I would think there would be a lot more casualties in those sports.

[Willy T]

I am looking at what you may call an "excellent battery bank" - an LFP bank. But I need an excellent bank for low sun hours. If I don't get an excellent bank, I'm going to be spending half or more of my time helping my solar system do its job, which is too much user intervention.

This might take a forum section of it's own, if it takes 500 posts to get here and still no system built yet. lol Good luck to you and all that advise you received, your system might think it's a golf cart.

[inetdog]

If people who parachute out of planes or climbed mountains purchased their equipment second hand or from scrap yards, I would think there would be a lot more casualties in those sports.

"Think of it as Evolution in action"
--Larry Niven

[SunEagle]

"Think of it as Evolution in action"
--Larry Niven

Shoot. I have read so many of his books. Is that from The Smoke Ring?

[inetdog]

Shoot. I have read so many of his books. Is that from The Smoke Ring?

Nope.
Oath of Fealty, about the Todos Santos arcology in Southern California.

[SunEagle]

Nope.
Oath of Fealty, about the Todos Santos arcology in Southern California.

+1.