New Crown batteries badly sulfated

[Sunking]

Dereck,
If I want to follow the procedure to do the EQ, how do I monitor the discharge voltage per cell consider I can't access the individual cells? Also Can I use the 20 hour rate to discharge instead 100 hour rate? what do you suggest?
Thank you.

Well first things first. EQ is part of your normal routine right? I also assume when your received your batteries they were not sulfated, not have you allowed them to do that right? With me so far?

So what Crown is telling you is the LAST RESORT before you chit can them. Read the steps, Crown points this fact out that it might not work, and you are trying the last thing you can before disposing of them. You cannot hurt a dead sulfated battery right? So having said that you will not be doing the full discharge unless it is the last desperate act to revive them.

Does that help? You are living testimony of why you need a generator. As for individual cells say in a 6 volt battery, only you rhydrometer can tell you exactly what is going on, and I do not have to remind you how important it is.

[inetdog]

Dereck,
If I want to follow the procedure to do the EQ, how do I monitor the discharge voltage per cell consider I can't access the individual cells? Also Can I use the 20 hour rate to discharge instead 100 hour rate? what do you suggest?
Thank you.

The first approximation is that all of the cells in a given battery will be behaving identically. If you have no reason (based on checking SG on each cell with a hydrometer) to disprove that, just divide the terminal to terminal voltage of each battery by 3 for a 6V battery and by 6 for a 12V battery.
It would be better to follow the instructions for a slow discharge as that will minimize the growth of local defects in the active material. Even though 100% discharge at the 100 hour rate will take 50 hours. I believe that it is more important to stick to the lower rate as you get closer to 0% SOC.

[paulcheung]

If you read back what has been posted it is clear to me you have not applied a proper EQ charge, or even a regular charge. It takes 24 hours after a complete charge cycle. It may have to be repeated after a full discharge/charge/EQ cycle.

You need to do a regular full charge, rest, EQ charge, rest, and fully discharge. Repeat once. That is what it tells you to do in the manual.

Edit Note:

What really strikes me as odd is you say the batteries have a July 2015 stamp which is exactly what you a consumer want to know. You want one with 1-year of less from Activated date. I do not know if the July 2015 date is Born or Activated date, does not matter because that is as good as a consumer is going to get is a 3 to 4 month old battery. They should be in factory mint condition. Impossible for them to have sulfated in that short of time. Maybe not impossible but highly unlikely and had to be intentionally abused.

This raises a huge RED FLAG in my book. It stinks of Fraud by the dealer. He had old stock and re-stamped the old batteries. He rolled back the odometer on your Fricking Old Rebuilt Dodge.

Dereck,
If I want to follow the procedure to do the EQ, how do I monitor the discharge voltage per cell consider I can't access the individual cells? Also Can I use the 20 hour rate to discharge instead 100 hour rate? what do you suggest?
Thank you.

[hammick]

Tangentially... if you are going to a 48 V 395 Ah battery, I hope you are planning to hit it regularly with a generator, or increase the size of your array. C/12 is 33 A... you should have at least 2250 W at the array orientation you described elsewhere. Even if you stay with what you've got you might want to size the BOS components to support getting up 3420 W, double your existing power, so you can easily add more panels later if needed. The 60 A CC you've got would prevent you from seriously overcharging (60 A = C/6.6), anyway.

Looks like the RE Crown's are super expensive. I'm waiting on a quote for the Crown 325ah RE batteries but I anticipate they will be $60 more per battery than the Trojan L16RE-A 325ah. The Crown's have the watering eye and Water Miser caps which are nice but at that price difference I will go with the Trojan. I can get Water Miser caps for the Trojans and live without the watering eye. Crown claims 50 more cycles at 50% DOD. Both have a two year replacement warranty and after that Crown has three year pro-rated and Trojan has three years pro-rated.

I'll have to wait 30 days to get the Trojans which sucks.

[sensij]

Waiting for pricing for eight of the 6CRP525 395ah Crowns.

Tangentially... if you are going to a 48 V 395 Ah battery, I hope you are planning to hit it regularly with a generator, or increase the size of your array. C/12 is 33 A... you should have at least 2250 W at the array orientation you described elsewhere. Even if you stay with what you've got you might want to size the BOS components to support getting up 3420 W, double your existing power, so you can easily add more panels later if needed. The 60 A CC you've got would prevent you from seriously overcharging (60 A = C/6.6), anyway.

[inetdog]

You are welcome and quit getting your shorts in a knot. It is not personal. I hit you upside the head to wake you up and get your attention. It worked right? No battery less than one year old should have any problems from the dealer unless the dealer is a hack.

Crown batteries are decent, not top of the line and for the same price or less Trojan Industrial line is a superior battery. Trojan has a working test in progress with 3rd Party Testing agency and their own lab that has been in progress for 4 years now using real world conditions. Not accelerated lab test that all others use. The Industrial Line they are testing is discharged to 80% DOD twice a day. As of now over 3000 cycle, 4 years, and no measurable loss of capacity. Trust me when I say this. No other battery manufacture, not even Lithium can do what a Trojan Industrial battery can do. No one even comes close. The Trojan Industrial is a solid 7 to 10 year battery. No one can do that other than Rolls 5000 series at twice the cost of Trojan, only Trojan and has the data to back it up from Third Party Testing agency. No other manufacture will allow a 3rd party to do that unless they actually buy them. Just try to find another manufacture that does that. You cannot do it.


Good luck

SK

Great information, thanks!
One concern that I have is that the test conditions are specifically Industrial usage profiles, i.e. prompt recharging to full charge using a charger with unlimited grid power available. I am concerned (and I am sure you are too) about what will happen when recharging is deferred until the next day and takes place slowly from limited PV power.
What is your guess about how the batteries will (or do) react that based on your experience with those batteries?
Have you used them for RE or just for battery backup or daily operation with a generator?

[Sunking]

Thanks for all the advice (yes Sunking I'm including you in that thank you).

You are welcome and quit getting your shorts in a knot. It is not personal. I hit you upside the head to wake you up and get your attention. It worked right? No battery less than one year old should have any problems from the dealer unless the dealer is a hack.

Crown batteries are decent, not top of the line and for the same price or less Trojan Industrial line is a superior battery. Trojan has a working test in progress with 3rd Party Testing agency and their own lab that has been in progress for 4 years now using real world conditions. Not accelerated lab test that all others use with controlled environment and unrealistic conditions. . The Industrial Line they are testing are discharged to 80% DOD twice a day under C/4 charge and discharge. That is extreme rates for cycle testing no one else would dare publish or atempt. As of now over 3000 cycle, 4 years, and no measurable loss of capacity. Trust me when I say this. No other battery manufacture, not even Lithium can do what a Trojan Industrial battery can do. No one even comes close. The Trojan Industrial is a solid 7 to 10 year battery. No one can do that other than Rolls 5000 series at twice the cost of Trojan, only Trojan and has the data to back it up from Third Party Testing agency. No other manufacture will allow a 3rd party to do that unless they actually buy them. Just try to find another manufacture that does that. You cannot do it.


Good Luck

SK

[hammick]

OK ignoring Sunkings conspiracy theory of switched stickers and Mr. Rogers' fantasy back on topic.

I was able to get the two newer batteries fully charged according to the Stanley auto charger. SG at 1.270

More importantly I received a call from Crown tech support and the guy left his cell phone number. Called him back and spent 15 minutes on the phone with him. He asked me to send photos of the sulfation on the plates.

Crown is keeping my business for sure. He recommended that I return the eight batteries and get eight of their Renewable Energy batteries. These are rated at 1,550 cycles at 50% DOD (clearly in a marketing war with Trojan), better warranty and come with Water Miser caps.

Waiting for pricing for eight of the 6CRP525 395ah Crowns.

Thanks for all the advice (yes Sunking I'm including you in that thank you).

[Sunking]

Sunking I don't know anything about you but from what I have seen you like to attack people. Please lighten your tone so my thread can stay productive.

Lighten my tone? What are you talking about? I gave you the best advice you have received so far.

FYI the manual you posted are for the Crown industrial batteries. Mine are the CR330 deep cycle line and I have read the charging instructions for that battery.

Does not make any difference, the procedure is the exact same for any battery. Point is if the batteries are less than one year old, and sulfated at the distributor. That should never happen. Makes no difference if the battery is low end or high end, you got ripped off. That is your problem, not ours. All we can do is point out what happened so it does not happen again. Expensive education I know, but that is the way it is. Costco or Sam's would not have done that to you, an dif there was a problem, no questions asked replacement or refund. Beet you a dollar whoever you bought those batteries from will squeal and make a bunch of noise before they replace of refund your money. Crown are one of thehigher end batteries. To bad your dealer is a POS.

You may not like my methods, I do not care one bit what you like or dislike. But I got your attention real quick and pointed out the problems. No one else did that for you. You just do not like what you hear. I am not goingg to hold you rhand and make you feel SPECIAL. This is not Mr Rogers Neighborhood children show.Get over it and grow some skin. The problem is still yours. Crown is a good battery. Well when they are new anyway and treated properly.

[hammick]

Sunking I don't know anything about you but from what I have seen you like to attack people. Please lighten your tone so my thread can stay productive.

Six of my batteries are badly sulfated and I'm not spending any more time on them. They have June 2015 Stickers. I know it is possible to revive them but it's not my job. I bought brand new batteries and shouldn't have to spend days fixing them.

The charging voltage and SG on the two batteries that are a month newer are rising. I believe they will be at 1.275 SG soon. I will either be returning all eight and getting Trojan RE batteries or eight fresh Crown batteries.

I know you think industrial batteries are the only batteries to buy but plenty of people do just fine with Crown or Trojan deep cycle line of batteries. Lot's of people do just fine with Costco and Sams GC2 batteries.

FYI the manual you posted are for the Crown industrial batteries. Mine are the CR330 deep cycle line and I have read the charging instructions for that battery.

[Sunking]

If you read back what has been posted it is clear to me you have not applied a proper EQ charge, or even a regular charge. It takes 24 hours after a complete charge cycle. It may have to be repeated after a full discharge/charge/EQ cycle.

You need to do a regular full charge, rest, EQ charge, rest, and fully discharge. Repeat once. That is what it tells you to do in the manual.

Edit Note:

What really strikes me as odd is you say the batteries have a July 2015 stamp which is exactly what you a consumer want to know. You want one with 1-year of less from Activated date. I do not know if the July 2015 date is Born or Activated date, does not matter because that is as good as a consumer is going to get is a 3 to 4 month old battery. They should be in factory mint condition. Impossible for them to have sulfated in that short of time. Maybe not impossible but highly unlikely and had to be intentionally abused.

This raises a huge RED FLAG in my book. It stinks of Fraud by the dealer. He had old stock and re-stamped the old batteries. He rolled back the odometer on your Fricking Old Rebuilt Dodge.

[Sunking]

Lighten up. It was a typo. 1.265

Did you ever look at the Operators Manual?

It tells you exactly what to do and what you should observe. No one will give you a better answer than what is below. Well factory rep on the phone is better but......

Treatment of Sulfated Batteries

Lead Acid Motive Power Batteries can become unbalanced or sulfated if they are not recharged or equalize
charged on a regular basis.**Likewise over‐discharging or unbalanced discharge can cause low uneven cell
voltages.***The treatment for restoring the battery to its full potential involves charging and discharging the
battery in a very tightly controlled manor.****This is a last resort remedy in order to salvage a battery that’s
been allowed to get into this condition.***This may or may not be successful, as sulfate is extremely hard to
remove from the cell plates and if let in this condition, may not be reversible.**


Step 1.

A. Charge the battery as normal to a fully charged condition.

B. Record all individual cell voltages and specific gravities.**These readings will be used later to measure
how successful the treatment was.**

C. Starting with a cool (less than 80°F) fully charged battery, charge the battery at 2.5 amps per 100 amps
of battery capacity.**A 24‐85FC‐21 has a capacity of 850 A.H.**Therefore the charge rate would be 21
amps.**Charge the battery for at least 24 hours.**Stop the charge, if the battery temperature goes to
120°F or higher.

Step 2.

A. Let the battery cool back down to about 80°F

B. The battery can now be discharged.**Using a discharge rate of 1.33 per 100 amps of the battery
capacity. A 24‐85FC‐21 battery with a capacity of 850 amps will need to be discharged at 11‐12 amps
for 96 hours.**DO NOT allow any cell to fall below 1.50 volts while on discharge.**Stop the discharge test
if any cell falls below 1.50 volts.

Step 3.

A. Charge the battery as normal to a fully charged condition.

B. Record all individual cell voltages and specific gravities.**
C. Compare the readings to the initial readings taken and note if there is any increase in gravity and
voltage.

Step 4.**

A. If the treatment restored the battery to normal conditions (Sp. Gr.**1.285‐1.300 and voltage 2.13 –
2.18) and all cells are fairly equal and the treatment was successful.

B. If the readings are still uneven or no improvement was gained, then repeat steps #1 thru #3

Step 5.

A. If after the second series of treatment the battery does not improve, the battery should be considered
unrepairable and should be replaced.

[hammick]

Check your glasses because you are blind. At 1.300 would be severely overcharged unless you are in the Tropics. 1.625 is completely destroyed. 1.725 would be roughly 80% pure sulfuric acid. FLA batteries run at 30 to 34% acid or 1.270

Lighten up. It was a typo. 1.265

[Sunking]

I couldn't get the specific gravity above 1.625 after four hours of equalizing (should be 1.725).

Check your glasses because you are blind. At 1.300 would be overcharged unless you are in the Tropics or performing . 1.625 is completely destroyed. 1.725 would be roughly 80% pure sulfuric acid. FLA batteries run at 30 to 34% acid or 1.270

[Willy T]

Makes sense but Crown says the SG for a fully charged CR330 is 1.275

I have seen other documentation from Crown that 100% is between 1.265 - 1.275 SG.

Oh well. Pretty sure I am going to spend $400 more and get the L16RE-A Trojan batteries.

The question is , How do you fully charge a battery that is not capable of being fully charged to capacity until the plates form. I did find the date sheet and it does indicate the fill is 1.275.