Tesla announces "Powerwall" batteries

[SunEagle]

Sorry if that was confusing. I often type near-nonsense.

Peak shaving is peak shaving. Just like generation, one should do it with cheap methods (load management) before expensive methods (batteries). So success stories showing how to combine the two methods would be interesting.

Until a really "cheap" energy storage system is invented and marketed you will not find many success stories. Hydro storage is the cheapest yet still not available or cost effective in most areas.

[Sunking]

Well then Mike, I suggest the "moderators" change the rules of conduct which currently read as follows (emphasis added):

Quit your whinning Ian. Those rules were made by the original owner of the site Jason who never enforced any rules. Strictly done for profit like the new owners. What you want is PC which is a form of censoring and silencing truth. If you are a moron, you should be labeled a moron for all to see. Free Speech is not Absolute like many thing, and this Forum can censor or allow anything they want at the Owners discretion. You or I may not like it, but that is the fact. If you don't like, don't let the door hit you in the butt on the way out.

It is called Marketing where all PR is good PR.

[SunEagle]

Well, SunEagle in
http://www.solarpaneltalk.com/showth...l=1#post145677
said
and http://www.mid.org/yourhome/programs/step.html is an example that gives consumers a whole $20/year
discount. Was hoping for a few more examples.

My reference to "energy demand and control" was associated with "turning off" your loads not switching to battery power. Conservation is the cheapest and easiest way to reduce your electric bill.

[Ian S]

Now add on the ancillary equipment to make it work.

What ancillary equipment? It already

includes installation, a maintenance agreement, the electrical inverter and control systems.

[DanKegel]

You were talking about batteries - this is a new topic that has nothing to do with the topic.

Sorry if that was confusing. I often type near-nonsense.

Peak shaving is peak shaving. Just like generation, one should do it with cheap methods (load management) before expensive methods (batteries). So success stories showing how to combine the two methods would be interesting.

[Sunking]

The 5K lease number was reported by Bloomberg, the same place the 7K purchase number came from:

"For a 10 kilowatt-hour system, customers can prepay $5,000 for a nine-year lease, which includes installation, a maintenance agreement, the electrical inverter and control systems. Customers can also buy the same system outright for $7,140, Bass said."

Now add on the ancillary equipment to make it work.

[donald]

You cannot get the battery for less $7K plus the ancillary equipment to make it work on top of that. The battery was conceived for Musk to tap more of your tax dollars like the car. It is Corporate Welfare. Why is that so hard to get through your lump of meat between your ears?

The 5K lease number was reported by Bloomberg, the same place the 7K purchase number came from:

"For a 10 kilowatt-hour system, customers can prepay $5,000 for a nine-year lease, which includes installation, a maintenance agreement, the electrical inverter and control systems. Customers can also buy the same system outright for $7,140, Bass said."

[Sunking]

The way I see it is that we need to look at ways of re thinking using the grid.
I have net metering at my house and it not a big system but it works during the sunny days I will top up my batteries and sell power back to the grid with a bi directional meter .
My bill on the month to month changes and do get a better rate than home without a system .I have to say the saving start rite away and have back up power if we have a black out.

Gilles

So Giles you do understand any power coming from batteries is many times more expensive than what the POCO charges you right? You do understand business principles right?

Essentially it cost you 50-cent to $1 to make a Kwh, to sell to the POCO for 12 cents. Do you like giving away money? If so include me in please.

[Gilles]

New way of thinking

Well, SunEagle in
http://www.solarpaneltalk.com/showth...l=1#post145677
said
and http://www.mid.org/yourhome/programs/step.html is an example that gives consumers a whole $20/year
discount. Was hoping for a few more examples.

The way I see it is that we need to look at ways of re thinking using the grid.
I have net metering at my house and it not a big system but it works during the sunny days I will top up my batteries and sell power back to the grid with a bi directional meter .
My bill on the month to month changes and do get a better rate than home without a system .I have to say the saving start rite away and have back up power if we have a black out.

Gilles

[Sunking]

It's hard to figure getting $2000 more utility out of the battery in years 10 and later. The computer in the Powerwall will then be ten years old. A new 7kwh replacement system may be less than $2K in 10 years.
So I'm not sure the lease is real. If it is, Tesla may be carrying the lease and offered it as a form of discounting. Or perhaps there is a charge for lease termination.

You cannot get the battery for less $7K plus the ancillary equipment to make it work on top of that. The battery was conceived for Musk to tap more of your tax dollars like the car. It is Corporate Welfare. Why is that so hard to get through your lump of meat between your ears?

[russ]

Well, SunEagle in
http://www.solarpaneltalk.com/showth...l=1#post145677
said
and http://www.mid.org/yourhome/programs/step.html is an example that gives consumers a whole $20/year
discount. Was hoping for a few more examples.

You were talking about batteries - this is a new topic that has nothing to do with the topic.

[DanKegel]

If so then provide proof as it hasn't happened that has ever been mentioned here.

Well, SunEagle in
http://www.solarpaneltalk.com/showth...l=1#post145677
said

Energy measurement and demand control is relatively easy to do and has ROI of 2 years or less depending on your loads and usage.

and http://www.mid.org/yourhome/programs/step.html is an example that gives consumers a whole $20/year
discount. Was hoping for a few more examples.

[russ]

yeah.

For comparison, anybody have links to existing success stories with residential peak shaving paying off in reduced demand charges, say, with old demand reduction systems or old battery types?

If so then provide proof as it hasn't happened that has ever been mentioned here.

If it worked the power companies would be doing it.

[DanKegel]

So not quite there yet but what happens when demand rates are all the rage and net metering goes away?

yeah.

For comparison, anybody have links to existing success stories with residential peak shaving paying off in reduced demand charges, say, with old demand reduction systems or old battery types?

[donald]

I assume these boxes will be online to Tesla from day one. Same as with the car. They are likely using exactly the same software security as they do with the car. I expect we will see software cleverness from Tesla later this year. That's what I would do in their position. Announce the hardware. Then near shipment show some "gee whiz" software features.