Cargo Trailer Camping Converting

[SunEagle]

Of course we've all carried gas cans, and idled an engine to charge a battery, both are certainly manageable risks. But both are more dangerous than anything in RV solar, short of walking around on the roof. And both are easily avoidable and shouldn't be recommended lightly as a primary source of camping power in my opinion.

Again to each their own. Some people want grid power for their RV, others will run the generator or engine to power their larger loads. Others again don't need the AC or microwave so running from a battery charged by the sun is just fine with them.

You have to take each persons perspective and priorities to determine how they want to live in an RV.

Neither choice is wrong. Just different.

[Sunking]

No for sure, I like how those work for mounting to the battery terminal and then the inverter would wire to that. This way if something did happen you wouldn't loose any wire or your inverter.

Hold on a bit, that is not a true statement. A OCPD (overcurrent protection device) like a fuse or breaker only purpose in life is to protect the wire connected to its downstream output. It has no other purpose. I will not and cannot prevent you from being electrocuted. It may or may not protect the utilization equipment connected downstream. This is why you want to select equipment like an Inverter to be certified UL 1741, and follow the manufactures installation instructions. Then a fuse offers some protection to the utilization equipment

All electrical codes dictate minimum wire size based on a fuse size. You can use a larger wire than minimum requirement to control voltage losses, but you cannot use a smaller wire. Example a 20 amp fuse minimum requirement is 14 AWG. Now if you use a larger wire comes with consequences. It requires you to also upsize the ground conductors. But that is not anything you need to concern yourself with. If you look at all the drawings I have shown you, take note of the ground conductor ron the battery negative return post. It is the same size as the largest FEEDER CABLE. Without that ground cable, all the OCPs are completely useless and would not work.

Im talking about using a smaller fuse board to separate my outside, inside and other little gadgets from each other and having them fused. like this: https://www.autoelectricsupplies.co....0134_large.jpg

Not sure I follow you here. That is a copy of the Blue Sea 5026 ATO 12 circuit Blade Branch Circuit Distribution I have in my last drawing. It is rated up to 100 amps. You would run a minimum 4 AWG feeder through a 100 amp fuse on the battery Term Post to the block, Then you can run up to 12 branch circuits however you like, The only limit is each Branch Circuit is limited to 30-amps maximum per branch circuit.

I will look into the isolator as that is cheap than a generator and one less thing to pack around.

Only qualification is the Isolator must be equal to or larger than the alternator. Example if the Alternator is 75-amps, the Isolator must be 75 amps or larger. Be sure to use a fuse on the wire at the Isolator going to the House Battery, and terminate on the load side of a battery fuse of same capacity. On my drawings I only show the fuse at the House Battery. Isolator fuse is not shown. That wire has two power sources and must be protected from each source of the House Battery and Alternator.

Electronic Isolators have what is called Ports. You will need a 3-Port Isolator. 1 port for the alternator, one for the SLI battery, and one for the House Battery. They come with up to 5 ports so you can have up to 3 House Batteries. The better Isolators allow you to match your battery voltage to the type connected to each port.

[UrbanElite]

Not sure I follow you here. It is rated up to 100 amps. You would run a minimum 4 AWG feeder through a 100 amp fuse on the battery Term Post to the block, Then you can run up to 12 branch circuits however you like, The only limit is each Branch Circuit is limited to 30-amps maximum per branch circuit.

Only qualification is the Isolator must be equal to or larger than the alternator. Example if the Alternator is 75-amps, the Isolator must be 75 amps or larger. Be sure to use a fuse on the wire at the Isolator going to the House Battery, and terminate on the load side of a battery fuse of same capacity. On my drawings I only show the fuse at the House Battery. Isolator fuse is not shown. That wire has two power sources and must be protected from each source of the House Battery and Alternator.

I understand the drawing, I was just saying I would rather the inverter be hooked straight to the batteries then it going through the fuse block how it was in the one drawing. One of those blocks are of interest to me because like I said I would like to have inside lights, outside lights, maybe stereo and few other things all on separate circuits that are fused. I have a nice switch board that has 1 12v plug in, 2 usb ports, small digital volt meter and 6 or so rocker switches that I will install on the one wall to run all those circuits from the block.

[UrbanElite]

Now back to the topic on hand, Like i said before I would like to be able to do 2 days of camping without power coming in from solar, as If I went out on a weekend and it wasn't very nice out I wouldn't have to worry about power all weekend, but if we were to go out for 4 days or so, and we could stay out there easy with 2 days of power, and if those days are nice the system will be keeping my batteries fully charged and every good day we had we just mean we could stay out a day longer too. I'm mostly doing 2-day trips, but there will be the odd 4-day trip I'm sure with my schedule.

So if we could keep the specs down a bit, I would like to save that money to put elsewhere in my trailer, or camping supplies. If I could stick with the 40A traccer MPPT, decent sized batteries and make it work to have a good system, that would for sure save myself money very fast.

Also, does anyone have links to good panel mounting systems? I looked at a system that had these aluminium blocks that bolt the trailer roof, then they had a clamp that grabs the side of your panel and a wedge goes into the block. When you tighten the bolt it snugs up the clamping holding the panel as well against the block attached to the roof. I want to make sure they are mounted well, but is vibration a problem too? I saw one some RV forums people took 1' pipe, about half a foot x2 cut it in half and use that to lift the panel off the roof and ran a bolt through the panel mounting hole, through the pipe and into the RV roof.

[Sunking]

I understand the drawing, I was just saying I would rather the inverter be hooked straight to the batteries then it going through the fuse block how it was in the one drawing. One of those blocks are of interest to me because like I said I would like to have inside lights, outside lights, maybe stereo and few other things all on separate circuits that are fused. I have a nice switch board that has 1 12v plug in, 2 usb ports, small digital volt meter and 6 or so rocker switches that I will install on the one wall to run all those circuits from the block.

That is just fine. Here is your wiring diagram minus the Rocker Switch panel.

[littleharbor]

While I haven't ever used these they are a different alternative to drilling and bolting through your roof. I believe they mount with adhesive. Plastic solar roof mount.jpg

[UrbanElite]

While I haven't ever used these they are a different alternative to drilling and bolting through your roof. I believe they mount with adhesive.

I know you can get some pretty strong adhesive, but I don't have a problem with drilling and mounting them to the roof cause it's there to stay and I don't have room to add more so I won't be moving them once they are mounted, but that would be a good alternative if you didn't want to drill

[Sunking]

Now back to the topic on hand, Like i said before I would like to be able to do 2 days of camping without power coming in from solar, as If I went out on a weekend and it wasn't very nice out I wouldn't have to worry about power all weekend, but if we were to go out for 4 days or so, and we could stay out there easy with 2 days of power, and if those days are nice the system will be keeping my batteries fully charged and every good day we had we just mean we could stay out a day longer too. I'm mostly doing 2-day trips, but there will be the odd 4-day trip I'm sure with my schedule.

So if we could keep the specs down a bit, I would like to save that money to put elsewhere in my trailer, or camping supplies. If I could stick with the 40A traccer MPPT, decent sized batteries and make it work to have a good system, that would for sure save myself money very fast.

Pardon me but that is what I have been trying to tell you from the start. Once you have completed your test with the fridge, you will have very accurate data to work with as the Fridge is the power hog, the rest is just minor fluff. Simple example let's say you measure the Fridge uses 1000 Watt Hours per day. Add 200 watt hours for the lights, gizmos, and fluff. If you want two days usable, you need to size the battery for 3 days. So 1200 Watt Hours x 3 = 3600 Watt Hour capacity battery. Required Amps Hours at 12 volts = 3600 wh / 12 volts = 300 Amp Hours.

I will give you another good battery manufacture to look at and see if available in your area. They are on about the same quality level as a Trojan RE Line or Rolls 4000 series. They are called US Battery and a direct competitor with Trojan. They make more 6-volt golf cart capacities than Trojan from 97 to 340 AH, and LR16 case from 360 to 380 AH. They even have a RE line up.They cost a little less than Trojan and considerably less than Rolls. They are the OEM for Yamaha Golf Carts, Trojan still rules EZ-Go and Club Car.

You are well on your way. Good luck

SK

[UrbanElite]

Pardon me but that is what I have been trying to tell you from the start. Once you have completed your test with the fridge, you will have very accurate data to work with as the Fridge is the power hog, the rest is just minor. 300 Amp Hours.

Indeed you did, I just jumped the gun, it's very exciting you know, I'm sorry for that haha, with 300 amp hours, if I chose to go with a 6v system persay 225ah, that would be 450 ah of power correct?

Ill take a look look into that brand and see if I can get it anywhere around my area, only reason I was looking st the s550 and s290 is I get a very good deal on them and from what I have heard, read and you tell me they are very good battery's!

[littleharbor]

You'll need 4, 225 Ah 6 volt batteries to achieve 450 Ah. @ 12 volt.

[UrbanElite]

You'll need 4, 225 Ah 6 volt batteries to achieve 450 Ah. @ 12 volt.

That's because you only use 50% of your battery correct?

ill have to look at the specs of the s290 and s550

[littleharbor]

2 6 volt 225 Ah. batteries in series is 12 volt @ 225 Ah. Series wiring adds voltage, not amperage so you need 2 series wired strings to achieve both 12 volt and 450 Ah.

[Sunking]

if I chose to go with a 6v system persay 225ah, that would be 450 ah of power correct?

No, some of your noodles still do not have butter on them yet.

Amp Hours is NOT POWER. Without a voltage specified AH means nothing by itself. Mathematically:

Amp Hours = Amps x Hours

Example if a load uses 5 amps for 10 hours it uses; 5 amps x 10 hours = 50 amp hours.

So how much power and energy is that? The question cannot be answered without knowing the voltage. Now if the voltage was 12 volts, then I can tell you:

12 volts x 5 amps = 60 watts of power.
60 watts x 10 hours = 600 watt hours of energy, or 12 volts x 10 hours x 5 amps = 600 watt hours of energy.

Make sure you know the difference between Power and Energy. Power or Watts is the rate in which energy is either being consumed or produced , Energy is the amount of work performed over a period of time.

Now back to your question. 6 V x 225 AH = 1350 watt hours.. For the same amount of energy at 12 volts is: 1350 wh / 12 volts = 112.5 AH. But here is an easier way to see the relationship. Lets use 3000 watt hours capacity be our common denominator. What are the Amp Hours required at various battery voltages.

3000 wh = 12 volts x 250 AH
3000 wh = 24 volts x 125 AH
3000 wh = 48 volts x 62.5 AH

As the voltage goes higher, amp hours go lower. That's the butter your noodles are missing.

Ill take a look look into that brand and see if I can get it anywhere around my area, only reason I was looking st the s550 and s290 is I get a very good deal on them and from what I have heard, read and you tell me they are very good battery's!

Rolls is good, Trojan is good, and US Battery are good. You asked for other recommendations, and I gave what you asked for. US Battery is good and should cost less than either Trojan or Rolls. Any of the three are good choices.

[Sunking]

That's because you only use 50% of your battery correct?

No you are letting the butter slip of your noodles again. Your confusion is understandable. There are basically two types of Off-Grid Stand-Alone Battery systems.

1. Is Daily Use system used everyday 24 x 7 x 365. Example a home, a remote telemetry site, a flashing street light in the middle of no where.
2. A Part Time or Occasional Use system. Example a RV, trailer, camp site, or cabin.

Batteries are expensive and you want to get the most out of your money, and how and when you use them determines how long they will last. A Pb battery has both a Cycle Life vs Depth of Discharge time line, and Calendar Life. Whichever comes first. FWIW Calendar life is your warranty period.

In a Daily Use system you get the most bang for your buck out of your battery limiting discharge to 20% per day, or 5-day reserve capacity. You limit discharge to 50% so in practice gives you 2 to 3 day run time before you shut down and recharge with a generator. Follow that plan and your batteries should reach both end of Cycle Life and Calendar Life at the same time.

For a Part Time system like an RV, you are only using it 2, 3, or 4 days a week at most. That gives you more flexibility and options to work with. One option is you can withstand a deeper discharge than 50%, and still arrive at end of Cycle Life and Calendar Life at the same time. Reason is you discharge the batteries deeper. It does not make financial cents to use a 5 day reserve capacity to extend Cycle Life because you wil reach end of Calendar Life before Cycle Life. There is one exception to that. If you routing are limited to 2 or 3 days, then you can size to 5 day reserve capacity and forget about Solar. You just use an Isolator, and a Inverter with Built-In battery charger while parked at home base or RV Park

So you want Solar. That is fine. But you do not need to go to the expense of limiting discharge to 50% if you do not intend to be on the road everyday year round. You can discharge down to 20 to 35% SOC. A good number is 3-day Reserve capacity. That gives you 2 cloudy days of usable capacity before you need to shut down and recharge your batteries. That would mean either you have to wait for the Sun to return, and wait another 2 days to recharge before you power back up if you do not have an alternate power source like an Isolator.

The last piece you need whether it is a Daily use or Occasional use system is Pb batteries require a periodic Equalization Charge about every 30 days. Solar cannot do that. It takes up to 24 hours to equalize a battery. A Daily user like a home must have a generator for cloudy days and EQ charge maintenance, A Part Time or Occasional user like an RRV can do that at home with a standard AC powered battery charger.

[UrbanElite]

I don't know about you but I'm more of a cheese guy on top of noodles, but that's a personal choice I guess.....

great info, I did enjoy reading that, that all makes way more sense how you guys get these numbers that I've been looking for. I can see now how from the start I would be missing a number and it's impossible to get the number without having all 3 or so numbers, (if my messed up wording makes sense to you).....

the last reply is great great to hear, I always heard not to go lower then 50%, so if I can go lower that will give me more time on my battery's for sure!

I will be using the system occasionally as I'm just camping on weekends, so I can use one of my chargers on the side of my garage once a month with shore power to equalize the battery's that wouldn't be a problem for sure.

So where are we at now for things I need to figure out?

we know I have 2x 320 watt solar panels, I'm looking to stay in that 40A MPPT charge controller range, my fridge on average draws below 50 watts while running, and I would like to dry camp for 2 days without solar to be safe to camp over a weekend without a worry about weather.

Any other info im missing or going to need?