Cargo Trailer Camping Converting
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600 watt Xantrex ProWatt Might start the fridge OK, if there is nothing else running and the batteries are fresh. Personally, I'd use the 1Kw inverter and not worry about the fridge starting if some other devices were on at the same time. Remember, transistors have hard limits on what they can do, unlike the dynamos at Hover Dam.
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Given everything you've written, if you go with the S-550's and 640 W of panels, I think you should be looking at the Victron Mppt 100/50 charge controller, $315 on Amazon.
Put the panels in parallel with the simple Y combiners recommended earlier, one each for the plus and minus side. I'd use 10 AWG for the runs from the combiners to the charge controller, buy a pre-made cable twice the needed length and cut in half to get a male and female lead.
The only fusing you need is right on the battery terminal. Look at Blue Sea Systems dual terminal fuses. One of the slots would be for the charge controller, a 50 A fuse with 6 AWG if the run is short. The other slot would be for the inverter, size TBD.
even if I don't need it what size of fuse should I put off the positive on the solar panel lead? I would still like one there since it's a source of power. 50a fuse and 6 AWG going from the controller to the battery's?Last edited by UrbanElite; 06-06-2017, 08:03 AM.Comment
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Given everything you've written, if you go with the S-550's and 640 W of panels, I think you should be looking at the Victron Mppt 100/50 charge controller, $315 on Amazon. For $150 more than the 40 A Tracer might cost, that extra 10 A is assurance that you'll be able to push C/10 charge current into the batteries in good conditions. Another $75 or so gets you to the Morningstar 45 A mppt, better quality if you want to throw even more at it, although I'd struggle to spend that much for only 5 A more capability than the Tracer.
Put the panels in parallel with the simple Y combiners recommended earlier, one each for the plus and minus side. I'd use 10 AWG for the runs from the combiners to the charge controller, buy a pre-made cable twice the needed length and cut in half to get a male and female lead.
The only fusing you need is right on the battery terminal. Look at Blue Sea Systems dual terminal fuses. One of the slots would be for the charge controller, a 50 A fuse with 6 AWG if the run is short. The other slot would be for the inverter, size TBD.
Nice find on that Victron CC. It is hard to find an MPPT CC between 40A and 60A that is not a low quality product.Comment
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Yes, 6 awg wire, 50 A fuse between the charge controller and battery. Use the type of fuse that mounts directly to the battery terminal.
CS6P-260P/SE3000 - http://tiny.cc/ed5ozxComment
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Good to know about the inline fuses when using just two parallel panels, thanks for the great info as usual Sensij.
And to the op here's a link to the battery terminal fuses that Sensij is talking about. Note that these don't come with the fuses, but they're at the link too:
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B002INJXO6..._FJQnzbVV6CW6DLast edited by Wrybread; 06-06-2017, 09:28 AM.Comment
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What you are wyebread do not understand is all components have to match to work with each other. A pair of Rolls S-550 requires:
Panel Wattage min = 600 watts, max 1000 watts
Controller size 50 to 80 amps
Max inverter size = 1000 watts
Now you say maybe S-290 and that changes everything.
Panel Wattage min = 275, max = 450 watts
Controller size 25 to 40 amps
Max Inverter size = 600 watts
So how do you size the batteries. Simple you must know your daily watt hour usage and how many days of autonomy is. The acceptable range so everything works together is 3 to 5 days. Guess what? You have not answered that question. Until you know that, you cannot build a system. At least not one you know will work and not cost a penny more than necessary.
So when you figure out how many watt hours you need, the rest is simple. Say you decide the number is 1000 watt hours. For a part time system you can go with 3 day autonomy which gives you 2 usable cloudy days of power before you have to shut down and wait for 2 sunny days to recharge.
AH = [3 days x 1000 wh] / 12 volts = 250 AH.
Panel Wattage is easy in an RV, you want a charge rate of C/10 to C/8, preferable C/8, and C/8 = 250 AH / 8 H = 31.25 amps.
Panel Wattage required = 31.25 amps x 13 volts = 406 watts.
Then you go shop for a 30 amp controller and 400 watts of panels.
MSEE, PEComment
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Some battery / charge controller / inverter combinations /PV power combinations to consider, depending on where you decide you want capacity to be, and the prices of equipment local to you. 12 V systems should pretty much collapse down to these options for most normal circumstances, I think.
30 A CC - Tracer 3210A
2 x Trojan T-105RE or 2 x Rolls S-290 = 225-230 Ah
2 x Rolls S-330 = 250 Ah
Max inverter = 600 W
Min PV power = 360 W
Max PV power = 720 W (depends on orientation)
40 A CC - Tracer 4210A
2 x Trojan L16RE-A = 325 Ah
2 x Trojan L16RE-B or 2 x Rolls S-480 = 370-375 Ah
Max inverter = 800 W
Min PV power = 480 W
Max PV power = 960 W (depends on orientation)
50 A CC - Victron MPPT 100/50
2 x Rolls S-550 = 428 Ah
2 x Rolls S-605 = 468 Ah
Max inverter = 1000 W
Min PV Power = 600 W
Max PV power = 1200 W (depends on orientation) [4 x Canadian Solar 280 MS, wired 2S2P, for example]
Any of these is compatible with 2 x 340 W panels in parallel, although you may be starting to get thin on PV power for the biggest batteries.Last edited by sensij; 06-06-2017, 03:19 PM.CS6P-260P/SE3000 - http://tiny.cc/ed5ozxComment
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Batteries are the source of power, not the panels. 1 or two parallel strings of panels require no fuses, 3 or more do require fuses. The battery fuses are installed directly on the Battery Term Post. Otherwise they are worthless as you will leave unprotected wire between the battery term post and the OCPD. Like I said the schematic wiring does not change, just the values.
Last edited by Sunking; 06-06-2017, 03:10 PM.MSEE, PEComment
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Some battery / charge controller / inverter combinations /PV power combinations to consider, depending on where you decide you want capacity to be, and the prices of equipment local to you. 12 V systems should pretty much collapse down to these options for most normal circumstances, I think.
30 A CC - Tracer 3210A
2 x Trojan T-105RE or 2 x Rolls S-290 = 225-230 Ah
2 x Rolls S-330 = 250 Ah
Max inverter = 600 W
Min PV power = 360 W
Max PV power = 720 W (depends on orientation)
320 watts wasted and never seen or used
40 A CC - Tracer 4210A
2 x Trojan L16RE-A = 325 Ah
2 x Trojan L16RE-B or 2 x Rolls S-480 = 370-375 Ah
Max inverter = 800 W
Min PV power = 480 W
Max PV power = 960 W (depends on orientation)
200 watts wasted and never seen or used.
50 A CC - Victron MPPT 100/50
2 x Rolls S-550 = 428 Ah
2 x Rolls S-605 = 468 Ah
Max inverter = 1000 W
Min PV Power = 600 W
Max PV power = 1200 W (depends on orientation) [4 x Canadian Solar 280 MS, wired 2S2P, for example]
Acceptable utilization of assets
Any of these is compatible with 2 x 340 W panels in parallel (or series assuming the controller can do it) , although you may be starting to get thin on PV power for the biggest batteries.
MSEE, PEComment
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You should try to get out of the STC box and look at real data from real PV systems sometime.Last edited by sensij; 06-06-2017, 03:46 PM.CS6P-260P/SE3000 - http://tiny.cc/ed5ozxComment
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The OP stated 2 to 4 days out just like wyebead says he does. Well guess what Sensij, if you size the batteries properly, you have no need for solar to begin with. My approach is sensible and gives the user the most bang for there buck and redundancy that completely escapes you. . Example with your 30 amp model.
400 watts Panel
30 amp controller
250 AH battery
600 watt Inverter
50 amp Isolator.
A heck of a lot less expensive, and if those cloudy days roll in you got backup power to recharge. Your and wyebread way is to sit in the dark and wished you had done things differently minus a whole bunch of cash you wasted on panels you do not need or doing you any good. My way is a much wiser and sound design with redundancy. I thought you were smarter than that. I can only guess your position being in the biz to sell more stuff and line your pockets with customer cash.
The OP wants the most bang for their dollar, meets their expectations, functional, and I am giving that to them. That is what I have always done, and its SAFE. You are pissing away money right and left. and no back up.Last edited by Sunking; 06-06-2017, 04:39 PM.MSEE, PEComment
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No sir that is where wyebread lives. That is why he never needs a genny or alternate source of power like a $50 Isolator to save your butt when those cloudy days roll in and your batteries go dead.
You should try to think outside the box and know you are throwing tons of money away that gains you very little. Throwing 720 watts of panels into a 30-amp controller designed for 360 watts is a huge waste of money. There becomes a point you are wasting money and valuable space. Like I said I can see over powering up to a point say 400 and 500 is a stretch. You are recommending a full 100% over the line and that is just plain horrible advice, and well outside any standard practice.
Listing a minimum and maximum does not imply a recommendation. Despite the carelessness with which you typically recommend array sizes, I strongly encourage folks to look at where they are likely to put their panels before recommending a size (within that min-max range). Are the panels facing east and west? Mounted flat or mostly standing up? Lots of cloudy weather? Very hot or cold daytime temps? There are conditions which should push a recommendation toward the maximum, and others which push a recommendation towards the minimum.
The only responsible way I see to deal with all those variables is to present the range, and try to give guidance on how to select within that range. Cost effectiveness is one of those variables. Find a pair of 320 W panels on sale for $0.50 / W or less, delivered? Go for it. It might even cost less than the 400 W of panels you'd prefer.Last edited by sensij; 06-06-2017, 04:55 PM.CS6P-260P/SE3000 - http://tiny.cc/ed5ozxComment
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Sunking, it's one thing to disagree with people's equipment recommendations and approaches, but you're simply lying when you say this:
Your and wyebread way is to sit in the dark and wished you had done things differently
And by the way, I have a battery isolator in my RV, I've just never used it when I'm parked for weeks at a time, since I simply don't need to. I've never once needed to start the engine to charge up the batteries. What part of that do you not understand???
You can disagree with my equipment choices and all that, but please keep the discussion honest, so we can all learn from each other. Otherwise you're just subjecting people to your prejudices.
320 watts wasted and never seen or used
200 watts wasted and never seen or used.
if you size the batteries properly, you have no need for solar to begin with.
In the real world, solar is infinitely easier than plugging in and charging before a trip, especially if the trailer or camper isn't stored near shore power. And besides it gives the flexibility to stay on the road longer and for plans to change. Furthermore it's much safer for the batteries since you're far less likely to run them low. You really should stop acting like you have a clue about the real world factors involved in owning an RV.
It would be one thing if solar were really hard to build or really expensive, but it's dead simple and dirt cheap.
minus a whole bunch of cash you wasted on panels you do not need or doing you any good.
I think you should stick to Ohm's Law. When you go off script you simply have no idea what you're talking about, and are actively spreading misinformation.Last edited by Wrybread; 06-07-2017, 08:20 AM.Comment
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So how do you size the batteries. Simple you must know your daily watt hour usage and how many days of autonomy is. Guess what? You have not answered that question. Until you know that, you cannot build a system. At least not one you know will work and not cost a penny more than necessary. So when you figure out how many watt hours you need, the rest is simple.
5741 watt hours = Battery Bank of 479 amp hours, 390 watt in panels needed, running 2x 320 watt panels = 54 amp controller....
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