Price paid per watt

[cletus]

That must be in the contract? Just how is "overproduction" defined? Bruce Roe

Austin Energy looks at your historical usage for the home and then decides if they will approve a system or not. They only pay back credits on your bill and they REALLY don't want people ending up with huge credits on their bills. I have spoken with one person who said Austin Energy asked the installer to remove a panel or two before approving the install.

But they pay $1,100 per kw back to the homeowner to install it so I guess being super picky is fair enough.

http://powersaver.austinenergy.com/wps/portal/psp/residential/offerings/solar/solar-photovoltaics-rebate

If you click eligibility and then detailed information you get to the PDF which states:
"No incentive is available for a PV system sized to produce more than 100% of the annual
energy consumption on-site. This shall be determined based on historical usage for existing
buildings or modeled consumption for new construction or alterations."

[cletus]

Opinion can be informative but I wouldn't necessarily rank it above the "Reviews" and "Testimonials" because opinions are "Reviews" and "Testimonials." Speaking to the information presented, that Solar World system seems to be the best value. Although if you haven't been in the home for a full year and plan on doing energy efficiency improvements sizing the system is your challenge. You may also consider lifestyle as well. More kids in the house? Fewer kids in the house? Mother-n-law? Plans for an addition or pool? Lifestyle may offset the energy efficiency improvements or amplify them. As for avoiding SunPower, I would suggest, avoid paying too much for SunPower but that advice applies to all manufacturers. Some manufacturers have advantages or features that are generally more desirable and are more costly. Saying solar panels are commodities similar to appliances is I think an appropriate description. Just make sure you get the right size, color, and type. The quality of the contractor is likely to have a greater impact on your installation good advice there. However, using this board as anecdotal evidence there are a lot more I love my solar stories than our friend in Arizona who seemed to get hornswoggled.

Hmm, the highest quote is from a homebuilder here who has gotten into the Solar market that seems to be pretty hot right now in Austin. The LG panel quote is from a fairly respected solar company here and actually seemed the most knowledgeable about the best placement of the panels that won't require moving some outlet pipes.

The lowest is from a smaller local company with great yelp reviews but not a lot of history.


Maybe my best bet is to work on getting my roof replaced and then check in around May to see what install prices look like then.

[bcroe]

overproduce

Austin Energy, comes down hard on people who install systems that overproduce
and can issue fines for it.

That must be in the contract? Just how is "overproduction" defined? Bruce Roe

[SoCalsolar]

Opinion can be informative

Opinion can be informative but I wouldn't necessarily rank it above the "Reviews" and "Testimonials" because opinions are "Reviews" and "Testimonials." Speaking to the information presented, that Solar World system seems to be the best value. Although if you haven't been in the home for a full year and plan on doing energy efficiency improvements sizing the system is your challenge. You may also consider lifestyle as well. More kids in the house? Fewer kids in the house? Mother-n-law? Plans for an addition or pool? Lifestyle may offset the energy efficiency improvements or amplify them. As for avoiding SunPower, I would suggest, avoid paying too much for SunPower but that advice applies to all manufacturers. Some manufacturers have advantages or features that are generally more desirable and are more costly. Saying solar panels are commodities similar to appliances is I think an appropriate description. Just make sure you get the right size, color, and type. The quality of the contractor is likely to have a greater impact on your installation good advice there. However, using this board as anecdotal evidence there are a lot more I love my solar stories than our friend in Arizona who seemed to get hornswoggled.

[J.P.M.]

Thanks for the really informative reply. I've been reading up quite a bit here and since I bought my current home early last year I don't have 12 months of usage yet not to mention the efficiency improvements. I also am required by the local utility to have a roof with 10 yrs+ of usable life so my roof will have to be replaced but that was priced into the house when I bought it. It just moves the replacement up by a year or two. 2 other installers didn't even want to come out unless I had a new roof. Part of the hesitation (which the other installers also mentioned) is that the local utility, Austin Energy, comes down hard on people who install systems that overproduce and can issue fines for it.

Panel size doesn't seem to be an issue for me and the large roof areas will fit 25+ of the LG 275 panels. Are the LG panels a good idea/do you have a resource for quality rankings for panels?

You're Welcome. Take what you want/need of it. Scrap the rest.

As an opinion only, I'd say that panels and equipment from most reputable, recognized manufacturers of panels and other equipment are, at this time, as a practical matter, fit for purpose from a quality and reliability standpoint.

So called "reviews" and such testimonials as are usually found on websites with some skin in the game and something to peddle (note the ads) are, and again IMO only, mostly specious B.S. of dubious value with comparison criteria often conjured up as someone's idea of what's important. I for one, don't ascribe much usefulness to such reviews and sites, but opinions vary.

LG seems to be as good as most other panels. Solar equipment seems to be well along or most of the way to becoming a commodity like water heaters, dishwashers or televisions. There will be some continuing shakeout as subsidies wax/wane in the future. The outfits with deep pockets may keep product lines or peddle them off.

If someone decided to go solar (by no means a done deal or a no brainer, BTW), I'd respectfully suggest they be more concerned about finding an established electrical contractor whose been around a long time (before solar), and thus learned how to run a business, meet commitments in a professional way, understands the value of a customer, and still managed to make a buck before solar and its subsidies. No promise of success, but maybe a higher probability of avoiding problems.

[cletus]

I'd avoid Sunpower. Great stuff. Overpriced for what you get. See prior threads. Seems like S.P. equipped systems run something like about 15% -25% more $$ per nameplate Watt than other systems using other quality panels and equipment. The initial annual output from most equal (electrical) sized systems is about the same - Sunpower and most everyone else's, and is similar for some years down the road.

In spite of seeming to sound a bit parental about it, the vendor quoting the 5.4 kW system may be doing you a favor, but maybe for disingenuous reasons. Oversizing a system is usually not cost effective.

On the other hand, if you are utilizing all the space you have and are not meeting a reasonably substantial portion of your load (say approx. 1/2+ to 3/4 of the annual load) the Solarworld vendor might not be completely straight with you. Sunpower panels will have ABOUT a 20% or so smaller footprint than Solarworld or most other panels - that's their potential advantage. If you are using all the available space, a S.P. system can be about 20% bigger (electrical size) and fit (physical size) in about the same space as a Solarworld system (note: 6.54/5.4 = 1.21, or about 20 % larger. HMM ??). If the Solarworld vendor doesn't handle Sunpower, the Solarworld vendor will need a justification for Solarworld that makes sense and deflects any real or imagined disadvantages of the Solarworld system. That may be part of the reason for the parental attitude.

Vendors make money putting equipment on your property - not being the moral guardians of your electric bills or saving you money. Oversizing is usually not good, but vendors not putting as much capacity on a property as possible is somewhat rare. Unsual behavior such as that raises my B.S. antenna and sends me off to find out the reason(s).

I'd get 12 months of estimated use after energy improvements and then run PVWatts for a few (electrical) sizes for a better idea (guess) of what the financial benefit vs. cost factors for various sizes and types of panels. Then, make a decision on size, get more quotes, pay your money and take your choice. Just do it with your mind and eyes open.

Thanks for the really informative reply. I've been reading up quite a bit here and since I bought my current home early last year I don't have 12 months of usage yet not to mention the efficiency improvements. I also am required by the local utility to have a roof with 10 yrs+ of usable life so my roof will have to be replaced but that was priced into the house when I bought it. It just moves the replacement up by a year or two. 2 other installers didn't even want to come out unless I had a new roof. Part of the hesitation (which the other installers also mentioned) is that the local utility, Austin Energy, comes down hard on people who install systems that overproduce and can issue fines for it.

Panel size doesn't seem to be an issue for me and the large roof areas will fit 25+ of the LG 275 panels. Are the LG panels a good idea/do you have a resource for quality rankings for panels?

[J.P.M.]

Yeah, 2 others. One is a quote for $25,250 for a 6.54Kw system using SunPower panels (seems high) and I didn't have a good feeling for their expertise.
Another is $17.6k for a 5.4Kw system using Solarworld panels but they didn't seem to want to size the system any higher to remain conservative in the face of energy efficiency improvements I made to the home (incandescent to LED lighting, duct sealing, solar screens)

I'd avoid Sunpower. Great stuff. Overpriced for what you get. See prior threads. Seems like S.P. equipped systems run something like about 15% -25% more $$ per nameplate Watt than other systems using other quality panels and equipment. The initial annual output from most equal (electrical) sized systems is about the same - Sunpower and most everyone else's, and is similar for some years down the road.

In spite of seeming to sound a bit parental about it, the vendor quoting the 5.4 kW system may be doing you a favor, but maybe for disingenuous reasons. Oversizing a system is usually not cost effective.

On the other hand, if you are utilizing all the space you have and are not meeting a reasonably substantial portion of your load (say approx. 1/2+ to 3/4 of the annual load) the Solarworld vendor might not be completely straight with you. Sunpower panels will have ABOUT a 20% or so smaller footprint than Solarworld or most other panels - that's their potential advantage. If you are using all the available space, a S.P. system can be about 20% bigger (electrical size) and fit (physical size) in about the same space as a Solarworld system (note: 6.54/5.4 = 1.21, or about 20 % larger. HMM ??). If the Solarworld vendor doesn't handle Sunpower, the Solarworld vendor will need a justification for Solarworld that makes sense and deflects any real or imagined disadvantages of the Solarworld system. That may be part of the reason for the parental attitude.

Vendors make money putting equipment on your property - not being the moral guardians of your electric bills or saving you money. Oversizing is usually not good, but vendors not putting as much capacity on a property as possible is somewhat rare. Unsual behavior such as that raises my B.S. antenna and sends me off to find out the reason(s).

I'd get 12 months of estimated use after energy improvements and then run PVWatts for a few (electrical) sizes for a better idea (guess) of what the financial benefit vs. cost factors for various sizes and types of panels. Then, make a decision on size, get more quotes, pay your money and take your choice. Just do it with your mind and eyes open.

[cletus]

Decent pricing - not the lowest but is in the right range. Do you like the installer, do they have a good rep and a number of installations?

How many quotes do you have?

Pricing depends on many factors - location, roof angle/height, needing or not needing staging and then electrical runs - long or short all impact the system cost.

Yeah, 2 others. One is a quote for $25,250 for a 6.54Kw system using SunPower panels (seems high) and I didn't have a good feeling for their expertise.
Another is $17.6k for a 5.4Kw system using Solarworld panels but they didn't seem to want to size the system any higher to remain conservative in the face of energy efficiency improvements I made to the home (incandescent to LED lighting, duct sealing, solar screens)

[Carl_NH]

Decent pricing - not the lowest but is in the right range. Do you like the installer, do they have a good rep and a number of installations?

How many quotes do you have?

Pricing depends on many factors - location, roof angle/height, needing or not needing staging and then electrical runs - long or short all impact the system cost.

[cletus]

I was proposed a 6.875Kw system in central TX for $24k before rebates ($3.49/w)
LG MonoX 275W Solar Panels (25)
SMA SB3000TL-US-22 (2)
Secure Power Supply Outlet
eGuage system-level and home consumption monitoring

How does the pricing look?

[dat]

And here is my 'cheap' Sunpower system installed

[ATTACH=CONFIG]5507[/ATTACH]

Look very nice. Congratulations!

[rdo]

And here is my 'cheap' Sunpower system installed

DSC06551s.jpg

[SunEagle]

That's before rebates/credits. I received additional discounts because the installer is part of a state run Solarize program. Towns that participate in this program sign up a single installer for their town. Economies of scale drives the install price down. Furthermore I gave the company a couple referrals for people outside our town which he recognized. I also negotiated a bit more. After rebates I'm at $1.88. I could have knocked some cost off if I didn't go with the Solaredge setup, but it was minimal.
I thought it was a great deal and I'm very happy with the engagement of installer to this point. Of course none of the real work has begun as my install is in late February.

Sounds like you got a great price for your system. Hopefully there won't be much snow on the roof when they do the install in Feb.

[J.P.M.]

That's before rebates/credits. I received additional discounts because the installer is part of a state run Solarize program. Towns that participate in this program sign up a single installer for their town. Economies of scale drives the install price down. Furthermore I gave the company a couple referrals for people outside our town which he recognized. I also negotiated a bit more. After rebates I'm at $1.88. I could have knocked some cost off if I didn't go with the Solaredge setup, but it was minimal.
I thought it was a great deal and I'm very happy with the engagement of installer to this point. Of course none of the real work has begun as my install is in late February.

Thank you.

[Craigswardmtb]

Before or after tax credits/rebates ? That's kinda cheap as full retail.

That's before rebates/credits. I received additional discounts because the installer is part of a state run Solarize program. Towns that participate in this program sign up a single installer for their town. Economies of scale drives the install price down. Furthermore I gave the company a couple referrals for people outside our town which he recognized. I also negotiated a bit more. After rebates I'm at $1.88. I could have knocked some cost off if I didn't go with the Solaredge setup, but it was minimal.
I thought it was a great deal and I'm very happy with the engagement of installer to this point. Of course none of the real work has begun as my install is in late February.