can i use a solar panel without using battery

[hugosereno]

Solar without batteries nor grid connection

My question is
can i use a solar panel in daytime directly to supply electricity my home appliances without using battery.

i mean

one solar panel and then inverter and then load.

is it possible?
what possible safety measure should i have take into account to protect my appliances from overcurrent.

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I want to do the same. So far the only unit close that is the "Sunny Boy" from 3KW to 12KW. I had read somewhere that it can work off the grid without batteries.... but I don't remember the site.
I think that minimal batteries can be used just to get the unit working. Then during the day with the battery charged, we should be able to use any extra power provided by the panels with no worries. (This would be 12 VDC through a larger AC inverter, although I'd prefer 240 VAC direct from the panels through a converter/inverter of some sort.

http://www.sma-australia.com.au/products/solarinverters/string-inverters/sunny-boy-3000tl-3600tl-4000tl-5000tl-with-reactive-power-control.html

http://www.sma-australia.com.au/home-systems/overview.html

http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/SMA-Solar-Inverter-Sunny-Boy-3000TL-with-Reactive-Power-Control-/121571019452?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_15&hash=item1c4e328abc

[Mike90250]

I am surprised that no one has brought up the old school Nickel Iron batteries yet.... Expensive as all heck for this, but will last years and years...

but now I'm looking at that pesky electrolyte change out......

[russ]

I jumped into this conversation las week, because I had the same question. I was greatly helped and I wanted to thank the people and give a follow up.

I must say that the instructions that came with LCB were wrong as far as the wire connections, but I found the right connection.
Just wanted to let you know
R.

Good to hear you got it under control!

[theshadownose]

Edison batteries

Ok, I wont get into a argument with the experts on what cant be done so I will just make this one post, and leave it to others to find out if its so or not, but I have done it and more. Its called shunt regulation. In fact I have been using a shunt regulator ( have built a few kinds) for 4 years off one of my turbines, a otherpower style one, with capacitor support, and battery backup (but real small battery)
It fact I cant say enough good things about it. the shunt is always on the mill rather than having a dump load that has to be switched on. I feel this is safer. The shunt regulator I am using now has a range of play (12.5 to 17 volts up to 300 amps) and is not a problem for my exanetrix, but rotary inverters that I put up pics of work too. I am changing my whole system around to work with this( panels and mill) my needs are modest (3 kwhrs/day) and am incorporating load sheading ( as needed)into my plan so I dont have to have a large bank. 6 t105s is my goal, with never more than 25% discharge.
Anyway, Experiment, and try out different things you may make some discoveries on the way ( PS, I am fully unqualified in anyway,no initails after my name, only know what works for me)

I am surprised that no one has brought up the old school Nickel Iron batteries yet.... Expensive as all heck for this, but will last years and years...

[Roelfiest]

My question is
can i use a solar panel in daytime directly to supply electricity my home appliances without using battery.

i mean

one solar panel and then inverter and then load.

is it possible?
what possible safety measure should i have take into account to protect my appliances from overcurrent.

I jumped into this conversation las week, because I had the same question. I was greatly helped and I wanted to thank the people and give a follow up.
I wanted to run a deep well pump directly on a solar panel. I was told that I needed a "Linear Current Booster" . This LCB arranges the pane output in such a way, so that the voltage allowed for the pump is within the limits per pump specs.

I bought an LCB from Solar Converters Inc. in Canada. The panel output that goes up to 40 V, is neatly downscaled to 25 V, which is great for the 24 V pump.
I must say that the instructions that came with LCB were wrong as far as the wire connections, but I found the right connection.
Just wanted to let you know
R.

[ZoNiE]

There is an inverter MFG in Taiwan making a GT inverter that will run w/o Grid power or battery. kinda new, No track record. I'll post if I can find the info. Of course, no output if the panels don't output some minimum that the inverter requires.

They were showing it at Intersolar running a refrigerator and a few other items.

Commercial Flywheel systems are available. There is an Intel Facility in Oregon which has one that keeps things going until the Diesel's fire up. I have not seen it, but it does exist. Perhaps there is someone on the board here who works at Ronler Acres could find out who makes it?

OK, I found the flyer when I got home. Cyboinverter by Cyboenergy. They show it using a battery in the flyer, but I recall the guy at the show telling me it would work without, which made me wonder where any sort of surge capacity would come from for LRA on a fridge compressor, for example. Their flyer even says it uses the battery only for the Surge, and the inverter runs the refrigerator on the panels only. Their diagram also shows a CyboCharger.

It also says they are made in the USA... (Assembled more likely: put the PCB in the Case or something like that, I would guess.)

Anyway, more stuff out there to look at...

[inetdog]

I found an LCB very easy, on the web, once I knew what to look for. I acquired one from Solar Converter, Inc., made in Canada. The manufacturer was on back order, but I found a supplier who shipped it. Arrived two day, which is in two days. The specs, a 7 Watt unit, is exactly what I needed.
Tomorrow is testing time.
Thanx again for your input.
R.

You are welcome, and please do come back with the results.

[Roelfiest]

To get the most out of the available panel power when the sun is shining and to protect your motor at the same time, you need to search for a device called a "linear current booster". Its job is to take the small amount of current that the panels produce during the early and late hours and convert it to a higher current at a lower voltage so that the motor still gets enough energy to do some pumping. And to cut off the feed to the motor completely when the current to the motor gets too high (which is what, along with sitting there not spinning at all but still getting power, would most likely to damage the motor.)

I found an LCB very easy, on the web, once I knew what to look for. I acquired one from Solar Converter, Inc., made in Canada. The manufacturer was on back order, but I found a supplier who shipped it. Arrived two day, which is in two days. The specs, a 7 Watt unit, is exactly what I needed.
Tomorrow is testing time.
Thanx again for your input.
R.

[SunEagle]

Commercial flywheels - yep there are a few - damn few which says they are not practical for whatever reason

I thought so too but I may actually be working on a project concerning a 2500kw flywheel system in Canada. They are having an issue with harmonics generated by the flywheel drives affecting other loads on the same system. Once I learn more about the project and find out what I can talk about I will provide some more details.

[russ]

There is an inverter MFG in Taiwan making a GT inverter that will run w/o Grid power or battery. kinda new, No track record. I'll post if I can find the info. Of course, no output if the panels don't output some minimum that the inverter requires. Wow not - no big deal until NEC allows it and they are UL or equivalent approved.

They were showing it at Intersolar running a refrigerator and a few other items.

Commercial Flywheel systems are available. There is an Intel Facility in Oregon which has one that keeps things going until the Diesel's fire up. I have not seen it, but it does exist. Perhaps there is someone on the board here who works at Ronler Acres could find out who makes it?

Commercial flywheels - yep there are a few - damn few which says they are not practical for whatever reason

[ZoNiE]

There is an inverter MFG in Taiwan making a GT inverter that will run w/o Grid power or battery. kinda new, No track record. I'll post if I can find the info. Of course, no output if the panels don't output some minimum that the inverter requires.

They were showing it at Intersolar running a refrigerator and a few other items.

Commercial Flywheel systems are available. There is an Intel Facility in Oregon which has one that keeps things going until the Diesel's fire up. I have not seen it, but it does exist. Perhaps there is someone on the board here who works at Ronler Acres could find out who makes it?

[Roelfiest]

To get the most out of the available panel power when the sun is shining and to protect your motor at the same time, you need to search for a device called a "linear current booster". Its job is to take the small amount of current that the panels produce during the early and late hours and convert it to a higher current at a lower voltage so that the motor still gets enough energy to do some pumping. And to cut off the feed to the motor completely when the current to the motor gets too high (which is what, along with sitting there not spinning at all but still getting power, would most likely to damage the motor.)

Thank you Inetdog. That was a vast reply on my first post.
Now I know that it can be done, I will be reading up on the "linear current booster". I hope I will find all the answers there, and not only more questions to confuse me.
Thanx again?
R.

[inetdog]

I have panel that I want to hook up to a submersible pump without use of a battery. When the sun comes up the pump starts churning. When a cloud passes or the night falls, all goes quiet. Location is in Thailand; there is no rush to get the water pumped up in a short time. Rainy season is six month, dry season is four months. The tank is plenty big. What do I need in between the panel and the pump.

Panel is 136W, Vmax 33V, Voc 46 V, Pmax 4.1 A. Pump 24 VDC, max Amp 4

The pump specs call for the use of a battery; probably, because it is not healthy to run at lower voltage, but it might run ok on 33V,
What would I need to make this work without a battery?
Thanks
Roelf

To get the most out of the available panel power when the sun is shining and to protect your motor at the same time, you need to search for a device called a "linear current booster". Its job is to take the small amount of current that the panels produce during the early and late hours and convert it to a higher current at a lower voltage so that the motor still gets enough energy to do some pumping. And to cut off the feed to the motor completely when the current to the motor gets too high (which is what, along with sitting there not spinning at all but still getting power, would most likely to damage the motor.)

[Roelfiest]

A variation to above matter - different circumstances

Panels don't produce a nice, even steady flow of electricity like a generator does ( heck, even they bog down when you load them up )....a fixed panel produces a little at sunrise, then the most around noon, then tapers off again in the afternoon as the sun angle falls away from perpendicular to the face of the panel. Also, weather conditions GREATLY affect the output. Cloud moves over, output falls WAY off.



In a IDEAL world, your attempt "might" work....if you could sit there all day and match your power use to the output of the panels every given second ( or maybe split second )....but I know I sure don't have time to do that......so I pull my excess needs ( wife flips on the oven, or the dryer, or a hair dryer, or anyone of a dozen other things ) from the grid, if the grid is up, and from my batteries ( on limited circuits.....she's just flat out of luck with the oven or the dryer....ahahahaaa ) if the grid is down.

Then, when we have excess power the house is NOT using, the meter turns backwards as we put it back on the grid. In off grid situations, if the battery was fully charged, and you weren't using the full power the panels produce, power simply wouldn't BE produced.....the panels just sit there at idle until a load occurs.

That's the WHY of what these other guys are trying to tell you when they say "It won't work"......because it won't work.[/QUOTE]
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If I may - my first post. My situation is related to above subject.

I have panel that I want to hook up to a submersible pump without use of a battery. When the sun comes up the pump starts churning. When a cloud passes or the night falls, all goes quiet. Location is in Thailand; there is no rush to get the water pumped up in a short time. Rainy season is six month, dry season is four months. The tank is plenty big. What do I need in between the panel and the pump.

Panel is 136W, Vmax 33V, Voc 46 V, Pmax 4.1 A. Pump 24 VDC, max Amp 4

The pump specs call for the use of a battery; probably, because it is not healthy to run at lower voltage, but it might run ok on 33V,
What would I need to make this work without a battery?
Thanks
Roelf

[billvon]

It fact I cant say enough good things about it. the shunt is always on the mill rather than having a dump load that has to be switched on.

Shunt loads are dump loads. A good shunt regulator will throttle the power through the dump load to control the voltage continuously. More primitive shunt regulators will turn it on and off rapidly to provide a similar effect. But yes, they work well when you have the extra power.