can i use a solar panel without using battery

[posplayr]

I've seen one of these systems in use in Rehoboth MA. it is an actual thing.

It's by no means a replacement for a battery bank which is I think what the OP's after but for those with big grid tied systems who want to get a little power during outages, that has become a doable thing.

Here's a recent thread on it: http://www.solarpaneltalk.com/showth...light=sunnyboy

Basically the SPS is sized to some fraction of the solar charging rate capacity so that the little bit siphoned off is not enough to pull the line voltage down.

[Bucho]

so you can run directly off solar panels, all the experts on here saying that you cant are WRONG

When equipped with an SPS module the inverter is capable of switching from interactive operation to stand-alone operation. In stand-alone operation the inverter can supply standby power to a dedicated power outlet that has been wired to the SPS module within the inverter. When sufficient sunlight is available this outlet can be used to run small appliances and charge electronic devices during prolonged utility power outages.

I've seen one of these systems in use in Rehoboth MA. it is an actual thing.

It's by no means a replacement for a battery bank which is I think what the OP's after but for those with big grid tied systems who want to get a little power during outages, that has become a doable thing.

Here's a recent thread on it: http://www.solarpaneltalk.com/showth...light=sunnyboy

[SunEagle]

so you can run directly off solar panels, all the experts on here saying that you cant are WRONG

There are specific applications that allow you to run your loads directly from solar panels (like DC motor water pumps and fans). The problem with just using panels can result in an inconsistent power supply which some electrical loads do not like.

I have a couple of roof vents that work directly from a 10 watt panel. They were designed that way but will vary is speed based on the amount of sunlight hitting the panel.

To insure a consistent supply of power for your loads it is better to use the grid, a battery system or generator set. That is the only way most AC loads will run properly and not burn out due to low voltage or too many "starts".

[almac]

You still have not answered the basic question; How much power are you using? Most of the responses of why it doesn't work are for economic reasons for large multi Kwatt systems. It is certainly not impossible to pull power from a solar system and it is not impossible to run appliances from a solar panel, you just have to deal with the variability of the supply (i.e. the sun) and the variability of the load (e.g. startup loads).

If you want something to supply power all the time (e.g. when the sun is gone), you are talking batteries as the most economical. If you can go without power at night then you don't need as much battery capacity. Now you are down to the next largest variability which would be sun obstructions lowering panel output. If you can live with anything less than say 1 hour just cut your battery capacity 16 hours (overnight loads) down to 1 hour (day time loads). You actual usage will dictate if that could give you a 10:1 factor or not in battery capacity.

So the bottom line is you have to either

a.) accept(loss of power) or
b.) deal with the variability (draw on reserve storage of power previously harvested).

The variability comes in two primary forms:

1.) the solar power generation and
2.) the loads placed on that generation.

Most of the answers by experts are in class b.) for kwatt based systems which economically is cheapest using batteries whether the variability is 1.) or 2.)


A strategy to take option a.) by reducing loads under 2.) does reduce battery capacity requirements as you should now well know.

i dont know how much power i use. its not too much, not so much i overload my inverter. and not so much i drain my batteries. have more than enough power from a 1.5kw solar array. thats it!

[almac]

What about the Sunny Boy's SPS feature?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fF461YYNbtw

so you can run directly off solar panels, all the experts on here saying that you cant are WRONG

[solarix]

This falls in the philosophical category of - there is no free lunch. Electricity is useful stuff, it should make you useful enough (lights at night for example) that you can afford it. Yes, this means batteries - yes, they cost a bunch and require some effort to maintain. But, don't be cheap and try to do the impossible of off-grid w/o batteries. Don't be cheap and live in the stone age because you can't afford batteries. Don't be cheap and buy into some company's financing that will keep you in debt. Don't be cheap and cry for cheap rates from your utility forcing them to make their power from the cheapest, dirtiest, energy sources. Don't wish for winning the lottery - cause you'll blow that on useless stuff. Don't just pray for a miracle, cause God expects you to do your part too.
Thanks for getting on this forum - we're giving out for free the educational keys to the solar kingdom here.

[Bucho]

Are you trying to describe a "grid tie system" where a very special type of inverter takes power from a string of PV panels, and feeds that into the grid? In that case, the grid acts as the battery.

Somewhere, you need a battery, either the "grid" or a bank of batteries.

Panel and load only works for some special water pumps with expensive control modules.

What about the Sunny Boy's SPS feature?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fF461YYNbtw

[solar pete]

not shure how to show link just goto youtube and type in how to lower you electic bill oncor said he was meter tampering

Hello Solar Ed and welcome to Solar Panel Talk. We dont allow links from newbies as its an anti-spam thing, we get daily spam issues. The other thing is that I know a lot of people dont click on links so you are far better of explaining what you want on the forum rather than posting a link, cheers

[SolarEd]

I just seen this and was woundering is it meter tampering??

not shure how to show link just goto youtube and type in how to lower you electic bill oncor said he was meter tampering

[posplayr]

howdy, i joined this site 2 months ago, been told by the experts here that off grid is a fantasy its all too expensive blah blah and been laughed at. well 2 months of trial and error iv arrived at a viable CHEAP off grid system with a CHEAP battery array. i rarely need the gen unless its cloudy for days at a time. if the batteries iv bought last just 1 year they have paid for themselves. of course a big part of a successful off grid system is power consumption. i eliminate everything that uses power that i can. use gas cooking, wood fire heating, gas hot water. (cast iron bath with gas flame underneath for washing) but can run everything i need like washing machine coffee machine power tools tv computers lights fridge. the fridge i freeze water bottles in the freezer compartment to save power time

You still have not answered the basic question; How much power are you using? Most of the responses of why it doesn't work are for economic reasons for large multi Kwatt systems. It is certainly not impossible to pull power from a solar system and it is not impossible to run appliances from a solar panel, you just have to deal with the variability of the supply (i.e. the sun) and the variability of the load (e.g. startup loads).

If you want something to supply power all the time (e.g. when the sun is gone), you are talking batteries as the most economical. If you can go without power at night then you don't need as much battery capacity. Now you are down to the next largest variability which would be sun obstructions lowering panel output. If you can live with anything less than say 1 hour just cut your battery capacity 16 hours (overnight loads) down to 1 hour (day time loads). You actual usage will dictate if that could give you a 10:1 factor or not in battery capacity.

So the bottom line is you have to either

a.) accept(loss of power) or
b.) deal with the variability (draw on reserve storage of power previously harvested).

The variability comes in two primary forms:

1.) the solar power generation and
2.) the loads placed on that generation.

Most of the answers by experts are in class b.) for kwatt based systems which economically is cheapest using batteries whether the variability is 1.) or 2.)


A strategy to take option a.) by reducing loads under 2.) does reduce battery capacity requirements as you should now well know.

[almac]

What we all neglect to talk about is the re-education of ourselves. We are all spoilt (in the western world) in our usage of electricity. We use it without thinking, we use it without a plan, we use if because we can afford it whenever we like. We don't realise that the governments of most western nations are heavily subsidising the pocos so that it 'seems' like fossil fuel produced electricity is very economical.

Off grid will work when we have better energy storage facilities, when we are better educated about our own personal usage and when we have improved equipment, but that is perhaps a few years away yet.

For example, you talk about 100 watt lights!!! My lights are from 8 to 20w LED. I haven't used an incandescent light for the last 5 years.
My family are now well educated about power usage because that is the first battle you will need to win if you want to lower your power costs. For now, grid-tied is the way to go, off grid is a future concept. I know because I have both.
I would say that you need to look at your system first before you think about off-grid.

howdy, i joined this site 2 months ago, been told by the experts here that off grid is a fantasy its all too expensive blah blah and been laughed at. well 2 months of trial and error iv arrived at a viable CHEAP off grid system with a CHEAP battery array. i rarely need the gen unless its cloudy for days at a time. if the batteries iv bought last just 1 year they have paid for themselves. of course a big part of a successful off grid system is power consumption. i eliminate everything that uses power that i can. use gas cooking, wood fire heating, gas hot water. (cast iron bath with gas flame underneath for washing) but can run everything i need like washing machine coffee machine power tools tv computers lights fridge. the fridge i freeze water bottles in the freezer compartment to save power time

[J.P.M.]

What we all neglect to talk about is the re-education of ourselves. We are all spoilt (in the western world) in our usage of electricity. We use it without thinking, we use it without a plan, we use if because we can afford it whenever we like. We don't realise that the governments of most western nations are heavily subsidising the pocos so that it 'seems' like fossil fuel produced electricity is very economical.

Off grid will work when we have better energy storage facilities, when we are better educated about our own personal usage and when we have improved equipment, but that is perhaps a few years away yet.

For example, you talk about 100 watt lights!!! My lights are from 8 to 20w LED. I haven't used an incandescent light for the last 5 years.
My family are now well educated about power usage because that is the first battle you will need to win if you want to lower your power costs. For now, grid-tied is the way to go, off grid is a future concept. I know because I have both.
I would say that you need to look at your system first before you think about off-grid.

What is your total, annual electrical energy consumption ?

[Beanyboy57]

Why would you burn 7 light bulbs in the day time ?

What you haven't picked up on is the batteries, or the grid, level out the power supply.


That's the WHY of what these other guys are trying to tell you when they say "It won't work"......because it won't work.

What we all neglect to talk about is the re-education of ourselves. We are all spoilt (in the western world) in our usage of electricity. We use it without thinking, we use it without a plan, we use if because we can afford it whenever we like. We don't realise that the governments of most western nations are heavily subsidising the pocos so that it 'seems' like fossil fuel produced electricity is very economical.

Off grid will work when we have better energy storage facilities, when we are better educated about our own personal usage and when we have improved equipment, but that is perhaps a few years away yet.

For example, you talk about 100 watt lights!!! My lights are from 8 to 20w LED. I haven't used an incandescent light for the last 5 years.
My family are now well educated about power usage because that is the first battle you will need to win if you want to lower your power costs. For now, grid-tied is the way to go, off grid is a future concept. I know because I have both.
I would say that you need to look at your system first before you think about off-grid.

[posplayr]

if you are trying to avoid the expense of batteries i have found a way and its not using junked batteries although i am trying that as well. i have now got 6 x 250w panels 2 lots of 3 x 250w panels in parallel. 2 x 30amp pwm charge controllers .. here https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0wwpRnlNPnI its as cheap as chips just $40au off ebay and they work great
both of these charge 4 x 12v marine batteries arranged in a 24v config. i use this during the daytime to run heavy loads off a 2000w inverter. fridge, washing machine, coffee machine power tools and also run a 40amp 14v dc power supply to charge 2 x 12v deep cycle batteries. the deep cycle batteries i use at night to run tv, lights laptops off a 300w 12 inverter. the marine batteries never discharge because i only use them during the day and the charge controllers keep them at near full capacity

If you couple a a.) single panel (120 Watt) b.) DC to DC step down converter with c.) a reasonable about of energy storage (across the 12V load) you won't run all night but you can run off of one panel and survive a couple of minutes of solar blockage. The Cap will certainly provide the current for any needed surge for a reasonably sized inverter. You would basically need one of the DC to DC convertors for each panel and though you could do some sharing of the super caps as that is peak surge related.

The DC to DC power supplies are pretty cheap but need some packaging for the DIY.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/12V-super-capacitor-module-6x-350-farad-caps-300A-engine-starting-car-audio-/111695608313?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item1a0193b9f9

http://www.ebay.com/itm/100W-12A-DC-DC-Buck-Step-Down-5-40V-24v-to-1-2-36V-12v-Laptop-Car-Led-Converter/271644575171?_trksid=p2047675.c100005.m1851&_trkparms=aid%3D222007%26algo%3DSIC.MBE%26ao%3D1%26asc%3D32297%26meid%3D4670058a8d564fe08ade15d5c85fc0ac%26pid%3D100005%26rk%3D1%26rkt%3D6%26sd%3D291323889848&rt=nc

[almac]

if you are trying to avoid the expense of batteries i have found a way and its not using junked batteries although i am trying that as well. i have now got 6 x 250w panels 2 lots of 3 x 250w panels in parallel. 2 x 30amp pwm charge controllers .. here https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0wwpRnlNPnI its as cheap as chips just $40au off ebay and they work great
both of these charge 4 x 12v marine batteries arranged in a 24v config. i use this during the daytime to run heavy loads off a 2000w inverter. fridge, washing machine, coffee machine power tools and also run a 40amp 14v dc power supply to charge 2 x 12v deep cycle batteries. the deep cycle batteries i use at night to run tv, lights laptops off a 300w 12 inverter. the marine batteries never discharge because i only use them during the day and the charge controllers keep them at near full capacity