electric space heater

[J.P.M.]

Here's what you guys are missing in your analysis.....with resistance heat that is localized to the room or space that you are located then these units are extremely efficient. You do not need to heat the entire house or a series of rooms....just the space you are in.

In my case a kWh cost me $.03 in the daylight hours when my solar system is producing excess kW. That equates to $8.82 per mBTU per broe calculations, which I agree. Propane at $.89 per gal is $10.89 mBTU. Bruce, you tell me which heat source you would use.

Don't just outright denigrate resistance heat......it all depends on what a kWh cost you and how much space you are heating.

For local heating electric resistance has real advantages and can be useful and cost effective, I had one under my office desk at home in Buffalo. Another practical example: Try firing an electric blanket with a heat pump.

I'd point out however, that the T.S.D. units you posted a link to are a resistance heat source and not for an isolated area. Their thermal mass does not improve their thermal efficiency. Any economic benefit is almost solely due to the difference in T.O.U. rates and the ability to time shift the power draw.

[billy1]

So what do you guys think of these two water heaters, which one is solarpaneltalk approved? https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0...A2VC4R4MD2AJDI

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0047V0KSU/ref=ox_sc_sfl_title_2?ie=UTF8&psc=1&smid=ATVPDKIKX0DER

Thinking about doing one of these later later.

[billy1]

What do you guys think of these water heaters from amazon? Ecosmart ECO 18 Electric Tankless Water Heater, 18 KW at 240 Volts with Patented Self Modulating Technology

Takagi T-KJr2-IN-NG Indoor Tankless Water Heater, Natural Gas

[inetdog]

What do you guys think of these water heaters from amazon? Ecosmart ECO 18 Electric Tankless Water Heater, 18 KW at 240 Volts with Patented Self Modulating Technology

Takagi T-KJr2-IN-NG Indoor Tankless Water Heater, Natural Gas

I just do not like tankless electric water heaters as the primary source of domestic hot water. The peak power draw is just too high, and does not offer any real advantages over a tank type heat pump water heater.

If you have natural gas available, that kind of tankless does make sense for some people.

[DanS26]

What do you guys think of these water heaters from amazon? Ecosmart ECO 18 Electric Tankless Water Heater, 18 KW at 240 Volts with Patented Self Modulating Technology

Takagi T-KJr2-IN-NG Indoor Tankless Water Heater, Natural Gas

Before you invest in a tank less WH...no matter the energy source....just be aware of the "cold water sandwich" effect. It is annoying and downright irritating. The tank less industry never mentions this "little" product flaw.

[J.P.M.]

I ended up getting DeLonghi HMP1500 Mica Panel Heater on amazon for $69, my kill-o-watt shows 730 watt. I'm thinking using my gas fireplace in the front room during the day and my mica panel heater in the bedroom at tight, it's going to be an interesting experiment. I figure if I can recoup the cost of the panel heater I can save face from @JPM.

Per the product info, it's an electric space heater with 2 settings, 750 and 1500 Watts. As such it will put out no more or less heat than any other electric space heater for the same heating element draw. Buy space heaters per size requirements and features, like safe operation, ease of use, thermostats, product quality, etc. not because they are efficient in terms of heat output per $$ of fuel source.

Spot heaters can save money if used wisely, but only because of the ability to put a small amount of heat in a small space and so not the entire dwelling, a good portion of which may not either need heat or be occupied.

No need to save face with me. Not my house/money/business, but you might do yourself a favor and learn why electric resistance heating is inherently wasteful as a heating fuel source with the fuel cost usually being about 2 to 3 times as much as the fuel cost of the heat derived from natural gas, or most any other fuel source.

BTW, unless the fireplace has a way to recover the flue heat, and the chimney is dampered, it's probably a gross energy (heat) loser. Use it for atmosphere, but without addons, don't think it'll save you any money. It won't.

[J.P.M.]

I just do not like tankless electric water heaters as the primary source of domestic hot water. The peak power draw is just too high, and does not offer any real advantages over a tank type heat pump water heater.

If you have natural gas available, that kind of tankless does make sense for some people.

CH4 (natural gas) fired always beats resistance heat for fuel cost, usually by a factor of 2-3, particularly for newer high efficiency products. However, based on the savings for tankless heaters, which come mostly by eliminating standby losses by eliminating the storage tank (which, FWIW, might have losses estimated at something like 3 to 5 kWh/day (~ 13,500 BTU/day or so)) and their upfront cost, the added cost of a tankless heater might take a while to recover.

In any case, as DanS notes, tankless, either electric or gas fireed are not all sweetness/light.

Another, but still costly solution, and depending on climate, less cost effective still, might be a heat pump water heater. Both CH4 fired tankless and heat pump are also more complicated and thus prone to needing more maint.

A more cost effective solution, both in terms of $$ and maint. PITA is still a standard gas fired tank, with 6" of added fiberglass insulation and 1/2" closed cell foam insulation for the hot water lines.

[J.P.M.]

So what do you guys think of these two water heaters, which one is solarpaneltalk approved? https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0...A2VC4R4MD2AJDI

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0047V0KSU/ref=ox_sc_sfl_title_2?ie=UTF8&psc=1&smid=ATVPDKIKX0DER

Thinking about doing one of these later later.

I wouldn't. See comments. If you have a working gas fired heater, keep it and add insulation. You'll be a long time getting your money back on replacing it with new fangled gadgets that cost money, need maint. and aren't all they're cracked up to be, especially when what you currently have is fit for purpose. Whatever you do, do your homework first.

[J.P.M.]

I will be under pge "time of use A" starting the 16th, oct-may kWh peak 28.8 cent 3-8pm and off peak 27.3 cents. June-sept kWh peak 40.6 cents 3-8pm and 33 cents off peak. I also have a base line credit summer 13.8 kWh and winter 11.2 kWh.

Natural gas cost me 1.26-1.35 per therms.

One therm == 100,000 BTU. 1 kWh as resistance heat is 3,412 BTU. So, at 0.70 combustion efficiency, 70,000 BTU of nat. gas supplied heat energy which will cost you $1.35 will be equal to 70,000/3412) = 20.5 kWh of electricity @ $0.273/kWh = $5.60 using your lowest listed rate for electricity above.

Using electricity to supply heat via resistance elements is like cutting butter with a chain saw.

Nat. gas wins again, although I'd check those T.O.U. per kWh costs you posted. They seem a bit high compared to mine (SDG & E, off peak winter = $0.20377/kWh)

What tariff are you on ? E-7 ?

[kitban12]

Hello everyone, I am also looking for a good heater. Winters are cold today, I need to keep warm. I ask friends, experts, they advise some antediluvian devices. Found on the Internet the article about the best space heaters for the large room https://bestazy.com/best-space-heate...-a-large-room/, it seems to be clearly written. I liked this version https://www.amazon.com/dp/B002QZ11J6/?tag. What do you think? Maybe someone had this or there, buy?

[SunEagle]

Hello everyone, I am also looking for a good heater. Winters are cold today, I need to keep warm. I ask friends, experts, they advise some antediluvian devices. Found on the Internet the article about the best space heaters for the large room, it seems to be clearly written. I liked this version https://www.amazon.com/dp/B002QZ11J6/?tag. What do you think? Maybe someone had this or there, buy?

I have the oil filled type similar to the DeLonghi and it works great.

[J.P.M.]

Hello everyone, I am also looking for a good heater. Winters are cold today, I need to keep warm. I ask friends, experts, they advise some antediluvian devices. Found on the Internet the article about the best space heaters for the large room, it seems to be clearly written. I liked this version https://www.amazon.com/dp/B002QZ11J6/?tag. What do you think? Maybe someone had this or there, buy?

Think safety first, particularly where space heaters use fossil fuel and involve combustion.

BE CAREFUL AND VERY SKEPTICAL OF CLAIMS ABOUT USING UNVENTED FOSSIL FUEL (SUCH AS PROPANE FIRED) HEATERS IN CLOSED SPACES SUCH AS DWELLINGS !! DON'T DO IT.

Also know that electrical resistance heat, which is the heating source for most of the products on your link are very expensive to operate. Such things are best used for small applications such as bathrooms or under a desk for example. The cost of meeting large heating loads such as a couple of rooms via electric resistance heat is often prohibitively expensive - and at a level unknown or not thought about until the first electric bill arrives. Also, the costs go way up as the heat load increases.

Start by adding layers of clothes. Then, read other posts on this thread before opening your wallet. I think we pretty much beat the subject to death back then and not much has changed.

[JSchnee21]

Perhaps a better way to ask the question is what is the opportunity cost of letting your banked kWh credits go to waste and expire over the next year or two. E.g 6550 - 4000 = 2550 kWh * $0.15 / kWh = $382.50 per year (roughly, depending on your price per kWh, assuming it all expires, and you get zero wholesale from your Poco).

Decent oil filled space heaters are $60-100 each, plus there is the risk of fire, extension cords and the like. Quality dehumidifiers are $200-400. Window air conditioners are similar (of course you could just run your AC more if you have one). You could also buy some grow lights for indoor "recreational" agriculture, or get back into Bitcoin mining (these also serve as good space heaters -- though the fans are a little noisy).

Buying a few of these items will quickly eat up any "profit" you had hoped to recoup on what is essentially a "throw awa"y item you'll no longer need once you buy your electric car. Better you should plan/budget for that Level 2 charger and 40 to 60 amp split phase circuit you'll need run to your garage or driveway.

[Mike90250]

Hello everyone, I am also looking for a good heater. Winters are cold today, I need to keep warm. I ask friends, experts, they advise some antediluvian devices. Found on the Internet the article about the best space heaters for the large room, it seems to be clearly written. I liked this version https://www.amazon.com/dp/B002QZ11J6/?tag. What do you think? Maybe someone had this or there, buy?

The Dr Infrared Heater Portable Space Heater, 1500-Watt is fine if you are on the grid and don't mind spending money on electric heat. Off grid, it's a no-go.
1500 w of heat is 1500 w of heat, regardless.

[morgandc]

The Steffes unit is close to what I was looking for ("fill" during generator run times), but I am not sure I like the idea of forced air due to a place to hide dust. Has anyone seen something like this that is sealed?