"Revamping the electric grid could yield huge cost savings, SolarCity report says"

[bob_bob]

http://www.latimes.com/business/la-f...203-story.html

" A Modern electric grid that incorporates solar, battery storage, energy efficiency and smart technology could save Californians $1.4 billion a year, according to a report released Thursday by rooftop solar giant SolarCity.
In its 28-page report, SolarCity argues that the current utility model works against consumer interests by encouraging utilities to build more power lines, substations and other parts of the electric grid. Utilities typically receive a 10.5% return on the money they spend on projects.
"Utilities have a fundamental financial incentive of 'build more to profit more,' which conflicts with the public interest of building and maintaining an affordable grid," the report states. "This financial incentive model is a vestige of how utilities have always been regulated, a model originally constructed to encourage the expansion of electricity access."


SolarCity proposes creation of a body that would manage localized electricity generation, such as rooftop solar and battery storage. Utilities would continue to focus on managing the grid with revenue from providing distribution services rather than making money from building more."

[SunEagle]

Hello bob_bob and welcome to Solar Panel Talk.

Just for thought. I wouldn't say a company that makes a profit from selling solar equipment to be totally unbiased in what they report and how they report savings concerning solar.

Building micro grids is not a cookie cut type of plan due to the change in density of population and topography of the land. It will still take years for people to disconnect from their mean old POCO when it comes to generating electrical power.

If you want to save money then CA (and everyone else) should be looking at ways to reduce their electrical consumption. That will save billions of $$.

[J.P.M.]

If you want to save money then CA (and everyone else) should be looking at ways to reduce their electrical consumption. That will save billions of $$.

+1. I like the leaky boat analogy: Which do you think makes more sense - finding/stopping the leaks, or getting a bigger pump when they get worse ?

For the comparison, the solar industry in this case is analogous to pump manufacturers.

[SunEagle]

+1. I like the leaky boat analogy: Which do you think makes more sense - finding/stopping the leaks, or getting a bigger pump when they get worse ?

For the comparison, the solar industry in this case is analogous to pump manufacturers.

I thought that just putting a bigger hole in the boat would let the water drain out faster.

[J.P.M.]

I thought that just putting a bigger hole in the boat would let the water drain out faster.

You're right !! What was I thinking ? Back to the drawing boards.

[bob_bob]

Hello bob_bob and welcome to Solar Panel Talk.

Just for thought. I wouldn't say a company that makes a profit from selling solar equipment to be totally unbiased in what they report and how they report savings concerning solar.

Building micro grids is not a cookie cut type of plan due to the change in density of population and topography of the land. It will still take years for people to disconnect from their mean old POCO when it comes to generating electrical power.

If you want to save money then CA (and everyone else) should be looking at ways to reduce their electrical consumption. That will save billions of $$.

Utilities are inefficient monopolies which are facing competition for the first time. A lot of utilities are against energy efficient measure because it means less profit for them. The utilities have been overcharging consumers for decades. The free gravy train is coming to and end for the utilities. Consumers will win and utilities will lose.

[SunEagle]

Utilities are inefficient monopolies which are facing competition for the first time. A lot of utilities are against energy efficient measure because it means less profit for them. The utilities have been overcharging consumers for decades. The free gravy train is coming to and end for the utilities. Consumers will win and utilities will lose.

Unfortunately Utilities are companies that have investors and are required to make a profit. IMO no worse than the pharmaceutical and insurance companies which get a much bigger share of my take home pay then my electric company will ever get.

Taking business away from the POCO is similar to pissing in the ocean. It is not going to make much of a dent.

[jflorey2]

Utilities are inefficient monopolies which are facing competition for the first time. A lot of utilities are against energy efficient measure because it means less profit for them. The utilities have been overcharging consumers for decades. The free gravy train is coming to and end for the utilities. Consumers will win and utilities will lose.

I think your tune would change if the utilities said "you're right! We are shutting down and allowing you to enjoy the benefits of 'free' off-grid solar."

Of course, no need for anything that drastic. If you feel you are being cheated, you can leave the grid at any time and install a completely independent solar power system.

[inetdog]

You're right !! What was I thinking ? Back to the drawing boards.

The devil is in the details. Just make sure that the hole is below the water level inside the boat and above the water level outside the boat.
(That may require lifting the boat out of the water.)

[bob_bob]

I think your tune would change if the utilities said "you're right! We are shutting down and allowing you to enjoy the benefits of 'free' off-grid solar."

Of course, no need for anything that drastic. If you feel you are being cheated, you can leave the grid at any time and install a completely independent solar power system.

Can't wait for all the lazy electric utility union employees to have actually have to do some work. They won't simply just be able to raise the rates anymore. Competition is the American way. Socialism and unions in the European way.

[jflorey2]

Can't wait for all the lazy electric utility union employees to have actually have to do some work. They won't simply just be able to raise the rates anymore.

They can, actually. They are public utilities, and can raise their rates provided that the rate increase is approved by the public utilities commission. These commissioners are generally appointed by the governor (an elected official) and ratified by the state senate (more elected officials.) So you have a say in what happens.

If you want to support more solar, expect to pay more for the required upgrades and generation. The PUC will generally approve rate increases to supporr thatt, because most states in the US support solar installations.

Competition is the American way. Socialism and unions in the European way.

Well, actually, complaining on Internet boards and not actually doing anything to solve the problem is the American way. Anyone here can go off the net if they are willing to pay for it; very few do.

[bob_bob]

They can, actually. They are public utilities, and can raise their rates provided that the rate increase is approved by the public utilities commission. These commissioners are generally appointed by the governor (an elected official) and ratified by the state senate (more elected officials.) So you have a say in what happens.

If you want to support more solar, expect to pay more for the required upgrades and generation. The PUC will generally approve rate increases to supporr thatt, because most states in the US support solar installations.

Well, actually, complaining on Internet boards and not actually doing anything to solve the problem is the American way. Anyone here can go off the net if they are willing to pay for it; very few do.

Electric utilities have used the monopoly to screw consumers, but as solar and batteries become cheaper, consumers now have an option and will have more of an option as rates get lower. The most efficient way to have electricity now is to use the grid with a non-corrupt utility that leeches off the consumer. Saying , "Anyone here can go off the net if they are willing to pay for it; very few do." ignores why the electric utility has a monopoly in the first place. They have a monopoly because it doesn't make sense for multiple firms to have their own line to customers. They have a monopoly because consumers can't easily switch. Because consumers didn't have an option before, they charged much more then was justified and utilities earned monopoly rent. So utilities now give large campaign contributions to get politicians to do things which benefit them at the expense of their customers. It's political corruption.

But as time goes on, solar and going off grid becomes an actual alternative. Competition is good for consumers and bad for utility companies. I know some utility employees and trust me they aren't the sharpest bulbs. Unions should be banned.

[bob_bob]

Well, actually, complaining on Internet boards and not actually doing anything to solve the problem is the American way. Anyone here can go off the net if they are willing to pay for it; very few do.

Freedom of speech a very important part of being an America. I'm sorry you don't seem to feel that way.

[J.P.M.]

Freedom of speech a very important part of being an America. I'm sorry you don't seem to feel that way.

FWIW, maybe I missed something, but I didn't see or infer anything about freedom of speech in anyone's comments.

[jflorey2]

Freedom of speech a very important part of being an America. I'm sorry you don't seem to feel that way.

Hey, your right to complain rather than doing anything about the problem has a long history in the US, and you have every right to do so.