"Revamping the electric grid could yield huge cost savings, SolarCity report says"

[SunEagle]

I calculate a gallon of propane has about 27 KWH of energy, which makes your generator about 15% efficient. Seasonable variations
of delivered propane prices here run from $.99 to $5.25. That last number (arranged by a convenient "shortage" at an entirely
predictable peak demand) made propane heat about twice the cost of straight electrical resistance heating, probably most people
didn't notice that. Lately natural gas has become available, but in recent years the connect fee (before you buy any gas) has risen
from about $25 a year to $336 and thats not a limit. I avoid all that by heating with PV solar. Bruce Roe in NW IL

My generac model 6000 3250w unit states 9 hours at 50% load with a 20gal bottle of LP gas. Which is much less than 27 kWh/gal and is even worse than what rsilvers stated at 1/4gal / 1kWh.

[rsilvers]

They could have always just stop having me as a customer and I would have to start over and try again with another company. And the $1.29 I just paid is the "high" price after they asked for an increase. (This was on 3/18/16).

Note here that the average price last month was $2.79, and the "low" price was $1.47. High was $4.73. So I am still 12% below the "low." Hard to argue with that.

http://www.mass.gov/eea/energy-utili...e-surveys.html

[J.P.M.]

When I bought this house, I negotiated a formula with a fuel company to price my propane based on an offset from wholesale prices. My friends and mother were paying much more. And actually after some months, they asked me if they could raise it, as it was not sustainable for them. I said yes, and this $1.29 was the new higher price (as of my last delivery a few weeks ago). It is about 20% more per BTU than natural gas, but seems fair enough for truck delivery.

I also purchased the underground propane tanks on my property from the fuel company who owned them, so that I was free to buy propane from anyone. If they had said no, I would have told them to come pick them up and then would have bought new ones.

Sounds like some heads' up negotiating, provided you believed them and to the extent that the non-sustainable part was (at least arguably) true.

[rsilvers]

That is a really low price for propane. I get it delivered by truck for $2.25/gallon in California.

When I bought this house, I negotiated a formula with a fuel company to price my propane based on an offset from wholesale prices. My friends and mother were paying much more. And actually after some months, they asked me if they could raise it, as it was not sustainable for them. I said yes, and this $1.29 was the new higher price (as of my last delivery a few weeks ago). It is about 20% more per BTU than natural gas, but seems fair enough for truck delivery.

I also purchased the underground propane tanks on my property from the fuel company who owned them, so that I was free to buy propane from anyone. If they had said no, I would have told them to come pick them up and then would have bought new ones.

[bcroe]

I just calculated that my propane generator will use 1/4 gallon for every 1 kWh that it produces. So at $1.29
per gallon of propane, I am paying 32 cents per kWh for electricity. That not a lot for standby use, but a lot for full off grid use.

I calculate a gallon of propane has about 27 KWH of energy, which makes your generator about 15% efficient. Seasonable variations
of delivered propane prices here run from $.99 to $5.25. That last number (arranged by a convenient "shortage" at an entirely
predictable peak demand) made propane heat about twice the cost of straight electrical resistance heating, probably most people
didn't notice that. Lately natural gas has become available, but in recent years the connect fee (before you buy any gas) has risen
from about $25 a year to $336 and thats not a limit. I avoid all that by heating with PV solar. Bruce Roe in NW IL

[Ward L]

That is a really low price for propane. I get it delivered by truck for $2.25/gallon in California.

[J.P.M.]

I just calculated that my propane generator will use 1/4 gallon for every 1 kWh that it produces. So at $1.29 per gallon of propane, I am paying 32 cents per kWh for electricity. That not a lot for standby use, but a lot for full off grid use.

And that's only fuel cost. That, and the rest of the acquisition costs, the cost of capital, maint. etc., are all why the smart money knows an off grid system powered by anything is always much more expensive than an existing grid access. Then, there's the PITA factor - priceless for some.

[rsilvers]

I just calculated that my propane generator will use 1/4 gallon for every 1 kWh that it produces. So at $1.29 per gallon of propane, I am paying 32 cents per kWh for electricity. That not a lot for standby use, but a lot for full off grid use.

[Yaryman]

Keep repeating the lie, and people start to believe it. Gore started it to get rich..

So after Al Gore lost the 2000 Presidential election he decided to get rich by making a movie called "An Inconvenient Truth"?

What other stories do you guys tell at the Flat Earth Society meetings?

You seem to think the climate change deniers are doing so because they are really, really good people and in no way, shape, or form profit from the lie.

OK, got it. You can trust the big power companies.

[jflorey2]

Keep repeating the lie, and people start to believe it. Gore started it to get rich. His actions speak the truth.

Like I said, learn the science and rely on it instead of your emotions. You might find it fun to hate people, but living in ignorance will eventually bite you in the ass. I am surprised you haven't learned this after years of working with solar. Deciding, for example, that you will use your own rules because you hate Ohm, Maxwell and Kirchoff (and figure you're much smarter than those hypocritical, lying a**holes) will result in you learning the hard way that science always wins in the end.

[Sunking]

You should learn the science behind climate change, rather than swallowing whatever propaganda the right wing feeds you. Science will win in the end no matter how much you hate Gore or Obama.

Keep repeating the lie, and people start to believe it. Gore started it to get rich. His actions speak the truth. FWIW I am Libertarian. I believe all drugs should be legalized and supplied by the government at dirt cheap prices. Addicts will kill themselves off and solve a problem.

[jflorey2]

Well Al Bore a . . . .

You should learn the science behind climate change, rather than swallowing whatever propaganda the right wing feeds you. Science will win in the end no matter how much you hate Gore or Obama.

[Yaryman]

It's interesting you think where Al Gore buys homes affects the temperature of the earth ( rising ) or your electric rates ( low ).

You might also look at a world map one day, there are literally hundreds of millions of people that will be looking for a new home as
the ocean level rises. Once again, do you somehow see that migration as peaceful and happy?

[Sunking]

Originally posted by Yaryman View Post
Where exactly do you plan on relocated the millions of people who will be displaced by higher water levels?



I'm sure you foresee a smooth migration of hundreds of millions of people from the now flooded low lands.

In this happy smappy migration I'm sure you see those who tried to limit CO2 emissions welcoming with open arms those who proclaimed
there was no such thing as man made global warming.

Just speaking for myself, if you claimed there was no man made global warming so you could make a buck or you were an idiot,
don't expect any help from me. Maybe others will be more generous and will welcome the deniers with open arms.

Well Al Bore after he started the SCAM and fear mongering the sea levels would rise wiping out coastal cities bought a luxury Condo in San Francisco in 2006 at 3rd and Mission Street where he said would be under water right now. He made a ton of money when him and his partner Blood started the Carbon Trading Brokerage firm GIM. All you gotta do is follow the money to figure out what is happening. Al Bore and Tipper were so worried about Global Warming and rising sea levels they bought their daughter Sara a residence in SF.

Al Bore also bought a 1.5 acre luxury $8.9M Mansion in Monticello CA with an ocean view in 2010. Yep Al Bore is real worried about rising sea levels and making a fortune from it. I made my fortune already and headed to the mountains at 7000 feet elevations in Panama. I even have an ocean view from both the back and front porch. Caribbean Sea to the north, and Pacific Ocean to the south. It is nice and warm here year round with rain just about every day. Electricty here is 7-cents per Kwh for all I want. My highest electric bill was $50 last June as it was hot and we ran the AC al month long.

[Yaryman]

Originally posted by Yaryman View Post
Where exactly do you plan on relocated the millions of people who will be displaced by higher water levels?

Same thing they have done for thousands of years, adapt like animals have done for millions of years. You cannot stop it.

I'm sure you foresee a smooth migration of hundreds of millions of people from the now flooded low lands.

In this happy smappy migration I'm sure you see those who tried to limit CO2 emissions welcoming with open arms those who proclaimed
there was no such thing as man made global warming.

Just speaking for myself, if you claimed there was no man made global warming so you could make a buck or you were an idiot,
don't expect any help from me. Maybe others will be more generous and will welcome the deniers with open arms.