Tesla Wants to Build a Battery for Your House

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  • Sunking
    Solar Fanatic
    • Feb 2010
    • 23301

    Originally posted by Nekota
    I drive an EV and am charging at 3.6KW overnight and it's never been a problem for 4 years. The idea you have to refill like a gas station is understandable until you bring the gas station home.
    I own an EV, well NEV anyway. I am a huge EV supporter and know quite a bit, not everything, but electrically I built my own NEV's two of them.

    I would bet you own an ICE vehicle too. All EV owners I know own a second and even 3rd car. All EV owners I know are comfortable upper middle class and beyond who can afford an EV and as many vehicles as they want. Just moved from TX to Panama. Sold all my vehicles in TX before moving. Had to buy new ones in Panama so I am down to 4 vehicles today which includes my NEV. What I am driving at is all EV owners I personally know, and even folks I do not really know I encounter on the web own at least 2 vehicle in which one of them is a standard ICE vehicle. Yes I know there are the some who only own an EV and try to convince everyone you do not need a ICE vehicle, they are just wasting their breath and only fooling themselves. EV will never go mainstream until 3 things happen.

    1, 300 to 400 mile range windows rolled up. AC running making the inside an ice-box, or heat making an oven with a 200 watt stereo blasting away.
    2. 20 minute or less recharges.
    3. Be competitive with ICE new car pricing

    Until that happens, EV will never go mainstream. EV enthusiast can argue till they are blue in the face. The market has spoken and demands it.

    Originally posted by Nekota
    Installation of level 2 at 40A service is bringing the gas station to your home and is equivalent to having an electrical service for an electric clothes dryer. The time I spend recharging is the time it takes to make the connection and later remove and store the cable. It's well under a minute to do both and then the car is full the next morning. You just connect and let the timers do the waiting.
    I and everyone else understands that, it is the 6 to 12 hours between plugging it in and unplugging is the issue, not the work involved.

    Originally posted by Nekota
    The power levels described would be appropriate for emergency road side charging. There is a level 3 DC charging mode that charges at 60 KW (Chadmo) that the SAE did not sanction (bad move in my opinion to generate yet another DC charging standard). The problem with high charge rates is the charge tapers as the battery fills so you don't charge at that high rate long enough to fill the battery.
    It is not a real problem. Lithium batteries can charged very fast up to 80 to 90% SOC. It is that last 10 to 20% that takes time to saturate the cell. Lithium batteries as meant to be operated in the PSOC range of 10 to 90% range. Taking them to 100% shortens life cycles. No commercial EV manufacture Top Balances or charges their batteries to 100% capacity. Chevy volt only goes to 80%, Nissian I think is 90%, and I know Tesla is 90%. That is the only way they can offer 8 to 10 year warranties which has not worked out so good so far. Point is there is no need to go to 100%, it is not done in real world use.

    All commercial EV manufactures batteries are more than capable of 4C charge rates (15 to 20 minutes). Well not Chevy Volt anyway. The issue is electrical transmission infrastructure, generating capacity, standards, and EV manufactures not supporting it. It can be done in a commercial setting like an electric filling station. No need to be done at home, but great need on roads and highways. Until nuclear power plants and transmission infrastructure are in place, EV's will not become mainstream for Joe Public. Only the privileged can afford it today like solar. In the mean time Joe Public gets stuck with the bar tab for Kool-Aide drinkers.
    MSEE, PE

    Comment

    • russ
      Solar Fanatic
      • Jul 2009
      • 10360

      Originally posted by Sunking
      Only the privileged can afford it today like solar. In the mean time Joe Public gets stuck with the bar tab for Kool-Aide drinkers.
      The unfortunate truth - plus in CA the EV owners get to drive in the HOV lane - even with no passengers.
      [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]

      Comment

      • Nekota
        Junior Member
        • May 2015
        • 11

        Originally posted by russ
        The unfortunate truth - plus in CA the EV owners get to drive in the HOV lane - even with no passengers.
        It is true California HOV access is a factor that contributes to increasing EV vehicle ownership. I don't know why that you would say that's unfortunate. It's a temporary sticker and just like the hybrids, it will expire with time. But at the rate of adoption of EV, it will be many years.

        Comment

        • Ian S
          Solar Fanatic
          • Sep 2011
          • 1879

          Originally posted by russ
          The unfortunate truth - plus in CA the EV owners get to drive in the HOV lane - even with no passengers.
          Oh, the Humanity!!!!

          Comment

          • Nekota
            Junior Member
            • May 2015
            • 11

            Originally posted by Sunking

            ... The issue is electrical transmission infrastructure, generating capacity, standards, and EV manufactures not supporting it. It can be done in a commercial setting like an electric filling station. No need to be done at home, but great need on roads and highways. Until nuclear power plants and transmission infrastructure are in place, EV's will not become mainstream for Joe Public. Only the privileged can afford it today like solar. In the mean time Joe Public gets stuck with the bar tab for Kool-Aide drinkers.
            There are many issues and opportunities with EV and with PV and they are not for everyone. I hope in time EV and PV become more affordable for everyone and we learn to use the cost of ownership, the purchase plus the ongoing costs of fuel, batteries and maintenance. And I agree with the needs of more nuclear electricity, it seems to be overlooked that nuclear is carbon free and the fear of nuclear is over emphasised.

            I am guilty of being too serious and I need to relax and laugh more now that I'm retired. But I'm moving back to my roots in the Carolinas, where PV and EV won't work for my country location. Good luck in Panama. Any PV systems close by on PVOutput? Would love to see what the efficiencies are like for Panama.

            Comment

            • Sunking
              Solar Fanatic
              • Feb 2010
              • 23301

              Originally posted by Nekota
              Good luck in Panama. Any PV systems close by on PVOutput? Would love to see what the efficiencies are like for Panama.
              There might be some data on PVOutput org, but I do not know of any.

              Solar is kind of a hard sell here. One would think being so close to the equator you would see a lot of it. Hydro generation here is plentiful, limitless for now, and electricity is pretty cheap. Couple that with no subsidies or Net Metering and you get no demand. Power Generation is all Government and the government is not going to compete with itself offering incentives, subsidies, Net Metering, and rebates Solar is a liability and is very expensive here. You do see some in remote villages in undeveloped areas. But most of it is on the Islands just off the north coast that is occupied by very wealthy Ex-Pats homes and a few high end luxury Resorts for the ole Hippie crowd to try out the local Whacky Tobacky Panama Red and nose candy.

              To the West is Costa Rica and solar is big. Again in remote areas which is pretty much all of Costa Rica. Like Panama, Costa Rica has quite a few Low, Medium, and High end Resorts that cater to the organic Turned-On crowd from around the world. Ganja is legal in CR. Hell there is a whole Tourist industry built around it. Travel agents set you up and take care of everything. Its crazy to see coming from the USA.
              MSEE, PE

              Comment

              • russ
                Solar Fanatic
                • Jul 2009
                • 10360

                Originally posted by Nekota
                There are many issues and opportunities with EV and with PV and they are not for everyone. I hope in time EV and PV become more affordable for everyone and we learn to use the cost of ownership, the purchase plus the ongoing costs of fuel, batteries and maintenance. And I agree with the needs of more nuclear electricity, it seems to be overlooked that nuclear is carbon free and the fear of nuclear is over emphasised.
                I saw the same EV at the grocery store yesterday with all the decals - the only one around. Very little solar PV or EVs here as there are no subsidies. The people with the money for such toys tend not to be from the loony left.
                [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]

                Comment

                • Dawnweaver
                  Junior Member
                  • May 2015
                  • 16

                  Just checked out the pricing. $3K for 7kWh or $3.5k for 10kWh battery, which can be chained together. This does not seem very economical as a backup solution, however. We are using ~35kWh per day, so the outlay for just one day of coverage would be ~$15k.

                  Comment

                  • Willy T
                    Solar Fanatic
                    • Jun 2014
                    • 405

                    Originally posted by Dawnweaver
                    Just checked out the pricing. $3K for 7kWh or $3.5k for 10kWh battery, which can be chained together. This does not seem very economical as a backup solution, however. We are using ~35kWh per day, so the outlay for just one day of coverage would be ~$15k.
                    Look at the options, buy a Generator, cut your usage by 2/3rds at least, sit in the dark. I am not saying this is a good deal, but some will go for it. In planning a back up you Solar the first question one should ask themselves, are my solar panels going to be compromised in the outage ? If the system is hybrid and the panels could be used , it makes a big difference in how you plan and the equipment you buy.

                    My plan is no panels producing power worse case and have a more robust back up. Ones location makes a difference and how normal outages occur.

                    Remember the Powerwall is more for time shifting power for a TOU owner and less for a backup backup is a bonus.

                    Comment

                    • bberry
                      Member
                      • May 2015
                      • 76

                      Ah ha!

                      I've questioned the validity of the many published assumptions regarding Tesla battery formulations. Today I found this:


                      While Tesla cars use a chemistry called nickel-cobalt aluminum (NCA), Musk said its Powerwall home batteries will use nickel-manganese cobalt (NMC) – a chemistry he’s reportedly derided in the past.

                      Could explain the lower Powerwall discharge rating, and longevity claims (if true).

                      Comment

                      • Alisobob
                        Banned
                        • Sep 2014
                        • 605

                        OUCH!!!!!


                        Comment

                        • SunEagle
                          Super Moderator
                          • Oct 2012
                          • 15124

                          Originally posted by Alisobob
                          Geee. Where have I heard all that before?

                          Comment

                          • Living Large
                            Solar Fanatic
                            • Nov 2014
                            • 910

                            Originally posted by SunEagle
                            Geee. Where have I heard all that before?
                            I've heard a lot of this on this website. Good critique, assuming there are statistics and numbers to back up the statements that were made.

                            Comment

                            • SunEagle
                              Super Moderator
                              • Oct 2012
                              • 15124

                              Originally posted by Living Large
                              I've heard a lot of this on this website. Good critique, assuming there are statistics and numbers to back up the statements that were made.
                              I just feel that the Powerwall still has some R&D needed to make it a viable and economical power source.

                              Comment

                              • Living Large
                                Solar Fanatic
                                • Nov 2014
                                • 910

                                Originally posted by SunEagle
                                I just feel that the Powerwall still has some R&D needed to make it a viable and economical power source.
                                According the author and his sources, there are many things that need to happen to make it viable for residential use - which is my interest.

                                Comment

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