No Savings using Solar in Portland Oregon

[Fedupwithsolar]

Well I am one of the fools that fell for a fast talking Solar salesmen, I'm leasing a system from SolarCity in Portland Oregon. I have a 3.78kW system on my roof, the front of my house faces West and half of the panels are on this side. The other half are on the East facing side. On the east side I also have a Flat roof and this is where part of the panels were to be mounted, with the rest on the west. When the sun is shining in the afternoon the west panels are in the sunlight and the east are in the shade. How can I be making full power with half of the panels in the shade???
By the way I started the process of installing the system 03/01/11 and it wasn't turned on until 10/15/11, during this time I was told that they couldn't install the panels on the East side because of the lack of afternoon sun on them. Well they told me that because of Structural issues they couldn't put the panels on the flat roof. So they said that they (could) put them on the East roof, and somehow came up with an extra 8% of output doing this. Go figure, really 8% more?
So where this is all going is, I'm paying more now for power then I did before the panels were installed. Why, well I have my power use bill plus my lease payment. Then in Oregon we have a Energy tax credit of $1500. every year for 4 years. But in May of every year SolarCity takes $1000. of this and when you file for the credit on your taxes you get the $1500 credit minus the $1000. = $500.

So up to this point in Portland we have had more cloudy and rainy days then sunny days, so the panels sit there and soak up money. I figure that I'm in the hole about $75. a month because of Solar, I got 0% output last year because it took them 7 months to install a system that should have been installed in 2 months max!

And here's the kicker, I'm a retired disabled vet living on a fixed income that is ALL Tax Free. I don't pay taxes so I can't take the Energy Tax Credit. They tell me that I can sell the credit for up to 95% of the $1500., but I haven't found anyone who wants to buy it.

I should have changed my name to Solar Screwed!!!!!

[russ]

Some consolation - Seattle is even worse!

[Naptown]

What about the generation guarantee. Shouldn't Solar City be paying for the generation they are not producing?
basically you signed up to generate x $ per year in savings which should be more than the lease payments.
I would seriously consider contacting your local consumer affairs office and filing a complaint.

[donstim]

Some consolation - Seattle is even worse!

It doesn't sound like the location has much to do with this gentleman's problems. Sounds more like the installation is the biggest problem, followed by the deal he got.

Seattle is actually a pretty good location for solar energy.

[KRenn]

Well I am one of the fools that fell for a fast talking Solar salesmen, I'm leasing a system from SolarCity in Portland Oregon. I have a 3.78kW system on my roof, the front of my house faces West and half of the panels are on this side. The other half are on the East facing side. On the east side I also have a Flat roof and this is where part of the panels were to be mounted, with the rest on the west. When the sun is shining in the afternoon the west panels are in the sunlight and the east are in the shade. How can I be making full power with half of the panels in the shade???
By the way I started the process of installing the system 03/01/11 and it wasn't turned on until 10/15/11, during this time I was told that they couldn't install the panels on the East side because of the lack of afternoon sun on them. Well they told me that because of Structural issues they couldn't put the panels on the flat roof. So they said that they (could) put them on the East roof, and somehow came up with an extra 8% of output doing this. Go figure, really 8% more?
So where this is all going is, I'm paying more now for power then I did before the panels were installed. Why, well I have my power use bill plus my lease payment. Then in Oregon we have a Energy tax credit of $1500. every year for 4 years. But in May of every year SolarCity takes $1000. of this and when you file for the credit on your taxes you get the $1500 credit minus the $1000. = $500.

So up to this point in Portland we have had more cloudy and rainy days then sunny days, so the panels sit there and soak up money. I figure that I'm in the hole about $75. a month because of Solar, I got 0% output last year because it took them 7 months to install a system that should have been installed in 2 months max!

And here's the kicker, I'm a retired disabled vet living on a fixed income that is ALL Tax Free. I don't pay taxes so I can't take the Energy Tax Credit. They tell me that I can sell the credit for up to 95% of the $1500., but I haven't found anyone who wants to buy it.

I should have changed my name to Solar Screwed!!!!!

Let me cut through the BS. Mounting on a flat roof often entails additional costs, the salesperson didn't account for those additional costs in the original quote, the company then decided to go with a lesser performing eastern mount instead of the appropriate flat-roof mounted facing due south so not to incur greater costs on the install, so yes, you did get screwed.

[KRenn]

What about the generation guarantee. Shouldn't Solar City be paying for the generation they are not producing?
basically you signed up to generate x $ per year in savings which should be more than the lease payments.
I would seriously consider contacting your local consumer affairs office and filing a complaint.

Have you seen one of their quotes? The generation guarantee is so conservative it's pathetic.

[Ian S]

This points up a disadvantage with a leased system: it's not yours so you can't even make changes to it without the lessor's permission. This sounds like a case of high pressure sales tactics used on a customer who relied far too much on the salesman's pitch. Now he's stuck with a long term lease with monthly payments, which if it's as poor a performing system as is claimed, will make his home considerably less desirable to a future buyer. Ugh.

[KRenn]

This points up a disadvantage with a leased system: it's not yours so you can't even make changes to it without the lessor's permission. This sounds like a case of high pressure sales tactics used on a customer who relied far too much on the salesman's pitch. Now he's stuck with a long term lease with monthly payments, which if it's as poor a performing system as is claimed, will make his home considerably less desirable to a future buyer. Ugh.

I would have thrown a fit, if they tell me its going to be on the flat portion of my roof, then it'd better be there and if it isn't, then I want to cancel the whole thing otherwise I'm filing a complaint with the Registrar of Contractor's. The biggest problem the OP has is that once you're locked into a SolarCity contract, you're never ever getting out of it. Can't buy the system out, stuck with the payments for 20 years.

[peakbagger]

The best approach may be to shame the firm into making it right. A very large well placed sign in front of the house with you iin the picture and a mention that this firm was ripping off a retired disabled vet on fixed income distributed to local news outlets may get a reporter over there. Once the reporter mentions the suppliers name on TV. I expect there will be some resolution. Generally the best way to get the presse's attention is a write it up with as a press release and send it to all news outlets plus a copy to the supplier.

[KRenn]

The best approach may be to shame the firm into making it right. A very large well placed sign in front of the house with you iin the picture and a mention that this firm was ripping off a retired disabled vet on fixed income distributed to local news outlets may get a reporter over there. Once the reporter mentions the suppliers name on TV. I expect there will be some resolution. Generally the best way to get the presse's attention is a write it up with as a press release and send it to all news outlets plus a copy to the supplier.

If your local news has one of those "On Your Side" segments, I'd go to them, explain the situation and if they get you on the air, your problem will get resolved PDQ, I promise you that.

[russ]

It doesn't sound like the location has much to do with this gentleman's problems. Sounds more like the installation is the biggest problem, followed by the deal he got.

Seattle is actually a pretty good location for solar energy.

Don't make foolish statements - I was born there and grew up in Oregon so I do know the climate.

An annual insolation value of 3.76 kW/m2/day is in the very, very poor range - From PV Watts

"Station Identification"
"City:","Seattle"
"State:","Washington"
"Lat (deg N):", 47.45
"Long (deg W):", 122.30
"Elev (m): ", 122
"PV System Specifications"
"DC Rating:"," 1.0 kW"
"DC to AC Derate Factor:"," 0.770"
"AC Rating:"," 0.8 kW"
"Array Type: Fixed Tilt"
"Array Tilt:"," 47.5"
"Array Azimuth:","180.0"

"Energy Specifications"
"Cost of Electricity:"," 6.4 cents/kWh"

"Results"
"Month", "Solar Radiation (kWh/m^2/day)", "AC Energy (kWh)", "Energy Value ($)"
1, 1.54, 33, 2.11
2, 2.50, 50, 3.20
3, 3.71, 84, 5.38
4, 4.37, 96, 6.14
5, 5.31, 118, 7.55
6, 5.52, 117, 7.49
7, 5.88, 127, 8.13
8, 5.17, 112, 7.17
9, 4.98, 105, 6.72
10, 3.00, 66, 4.22
11, 1.76, 37, 2.37
12, 1.26, 26, 1.66
"Year", 3.76, 970, 62.08

[Fedupwithsolar]

It keeps getting better and better all the time.

During the 6 months it took the to do a simple 2 day job, they came out to my house 6 times to do audits. Look at the house take pictures measure the roof, pull off the vents and measure the rafters in the flat roof. Go into the attic and take more pictures to make sure the roof will support the panels. And all 6 times they walked all over my roof, including the flat roof.
Now 4 years ago I had a brand new roof installed, they striped off all the old roofing and put new down. And for 4 years of rain and snow in Portland not a single leak, that is until SolarCity showed up! Now every time they came and measured the rafters in the flat roof they came up with either 12" or 14" on center. The last time they came out I pulled the covers myself and measured for myself, 16" on center at 4 different spots. Just like it should be, in the main part of the house the rafters in the attic. Have load bearing wall rafter supports in 4 places in the attic, guess what they never saw? They asked me when I had those installed? In 1950 when the house was built, the flat roof is a addition that was done in 1962 and the rafters are 2x12's crossed tied, they never saw that either.
So the roof is 4 years old and never leaked, 30 people for 6 months walk all over the flat roof. They were going to install the panels on that roof, and they put 7 holes in the flat roof then patched them when they put the panels on the east roof. So they get the panels installed and all hooked up, and the summer of 2011 is all over and no production at all. So that winter we have a heavy snow that was followed by heavy rains (Did I say the the roof is only 4 years old and never leaked) we were gone for a couple of days and when we get home there is 3" of water on the floor and water pouring in through the ceiling and down the wall.
So who you gonna call, the last ones on the roof! SolarCity, I call and they send out an Electrician. Who takes a sawsall and cuts a 4' hole in my ceiling to see where the water is coming in from, to make a longer story short. They come out with a 40' square blue tarp and 15 sand bags and cover the roof so it isn't leaking anymore.
This is the roof that hasn't leaked in 4 years, and SolarCity is now blaming the roofer for the leaks. Then the war starts between the 2 of them, in the mean time I have a 4' hole in my ceiling and a tarp on the roof. For ( 3 Months ) they fight it out and I just want my roof fixed,
So SolarCity comes up with this great idea, they want me to sign away my roof warranty with them and make me responsible for anything that happens in the future and they will pay to have the roof fixed. Well you know that didn't happen! And we are back to square one, so I start writing forums and on Face Book. Well they didn't like it when I posted on FB, and I also called there Corporate offices and I want to talk to the CEO. Well the roof got fixed and al I had to sign was a paper saying the roofer would cover the warranty on the flat roof which is 21 years.
Now is the story over, NO! Why? Well I don't want this thing on my roof, I want them to remove it and make me happy like I was before I even heard of SolarCity. I want this thing gone, is it going to be easy to get it done. I don't think so, but being retired I have allot of time on my hands. I also have a 33' 5th Wheel with nothing on the sides YET! I plan on going to a sign shop and having my story put on panels in big letters and put on the trailer, then I'm going to tow it and park it all over town. And at every Oregon State Park!
So what do you think about that!!!!!!

[KRenn]

During the 6 months it took the to do a simple 2 day job, they came out to my house 6 times to do audits. Look at the house take pictures measure the roof, pull off the vents and measure the rafters in the flat roof. Go into the attic and take more pictures to make sure the roof will support the panels. And all 6 times they walked all over my roof, including the flat roof.
Now 4 years ago I had a brand new roof installed, they striped off all the old roofing and put new down. And for 4 years of rain and snow in Portland not a single leak, that is until SolarCity showed up! Now every time they came and measured the rafters in the flat roof they came up with either 12" or 14" on center. The last time they came out I pulled the covers myself and measured for myself, 16" on center at 4 different spots. Just like it should be, in the main part of the house the rafters in the attic. Have load bearing wall rafter supports in 4 places in the attic, guess what they never saw? They asked me when I had those installed? In 1950 when the house was built, the flat roof is a addition that was done in 1962 and the rafters are 2x12's crossed tied, they never saw that either.
So the roof is 4 years old and never leaked, 30 people for 6 months walk all over the flat roof. They were going to install the panels on that roof, and they put 7 holes in the flat roof then patched them when they put the panels on the east roof. So they get the panels installed and all hooked up, and the summer of 2011 is all over and no production at all. So that winter we have a heavy snow that was followed by heavy rains (Did I say the the roof is only 4 years old and never leaked) we were gone for a couple of days and when we get home there is 3" of water on the floor and water pouring in through the ceiling and down the wall.
So who you gonna call, the last ones on the roof! SolarCity, I call and they send out an Electrician. Who takes a sawsall and cuts a 4' hole in my ceiling to see where the water is coming in from, to make a longer story short. They come out with a 40' square blue tarp and 15 sand bags and cover the roof so it isn't leaking anymore.
This is the roof that hasn't leaked in 4 years, and SolarCity is now blaming the roofer for the leaks. Then the war starts between the 2 of them, in the mean time I have a 4' hole in my ceiling and a tarp on the roof. For ( 3 Months ) they fight it out and I just want my roof fixed,
So SolarCity comes up with this great idea, they want me to sign away my roof warranty with them and make me responsible for anything that happens in the future and they will pay to have the roof fixed. ]

Speechless.






Sounds like the Keystone Kops initiated Operation FUBAR on your home.

[russ]

Make sure you do it in a way (words) that the company can not come back at you.

Fun to get equal and screw them but not fun to get screwed even worse yourself.

[Fedupwithsolar]

You may have been born there.

But the weather patters have changed in the NorthWest, last summer it rained until Augest and off and on the rest of the summer. The wettest on record, and this summer it's still raining in Portland. Today 06/06/12 it was great with no rain, but tomorrow we have a 90% chance of rain and for the rest of the week.
I was born in Portland in 1950 and we have always had hot summers, sometimes it would rain but for the most part it was nice. But not anymore!