SunCap Financial Lease, too good to be true?

[stanguard]

Offered a 6.44kwh PV system for one upfront lease payment of around $7840. The lease term is 20 years and at the end of the term I can simply ask them to remove it from the roof at no cost to me. If I sell my house the lease goes to the new owner. There are no monthly payments and I keep all electricity that is produced. Has anyone else seen or heard of this?

[russ]

Hi Stan - Welcome to Solar Panel Talk!

There are many leasing companies in the business now. Suncap is just going to sell this off to an installer most likely - getting service etc could be tricky?

a) What zip code are you located in? Then we can estimate how many annual kWh you can generate.

b) What is your power consumption - month by month?

c) What is your electric rate at present?

1) The lease can go to the new buyer if they qualify according to the leasing company. If not you can buy the lease out. You can not walk away from the lease - you are on the hook for 20 years or until you can turn it over to someone else acceptable to the leasing company.

2) 1,22$ per DC watt - up front -

3) All SRECs, tax credits, rebates, refunds or any other benefit of this type go to the leasing company for the duration of the lease.

4) By leasing companies, the system is normally sized so there is no export available - you will still take a good portion of your power from the grid.

With a bit more information we can help more.

Russ

[stanguard]

Please view comments.

Hi Stan - Welcome to Solar Panel Talk!

There are many leasing companies in the business now. Suncap is just going to sell this off to an installer most likely - getting service etc could be tricky?

a) What zip code are you located in? Then we can estimate how many annual kWh you can generate.

b) What is your power consumption - month by month? about 1400 kwh on average

c) What is your electric rate at present? depends, on-peak/off-peak. i think this is irrelevant because the lease says i own all electricity that is produced.

1) The lease can go to the new buyer if they qualify according to the leasing company. If not you can buy the lease out. You can not walk away from the lease - you are on the hook for 20 years or until you can turn it over to someone else acceptable to the leasing company.

the lease says I pay one fee upfront and there are no more cost during the duration of the 20 year lease. has anyone else seen this?

2) 1,22$ per DC watt - up front -

3) All SRECs, tax credits, rebates, refunds or any other benefit of this type go to the leasing company for the duration of the lease.

I understand this but are the SRECs so valuable that they will pay a premium for them?

4) By leasing companies, the system is normally sized so there is no export available - you will still take a good portion of your power from the grid.

With a bit more information we can help more.

Russ

My comments are above

[Naptown]

Russ's questions are too important to be glossed over.
You failed to give a zip code with this information we can do a rough estimation of system output and perhaps come up with what incentives are available to you.
The leasing company is making money on this, and generally much more than it will save you on the electric bill. Although for a system that size on an outright purchase you will most always come out ahead in the long run by purchasing not leasing.
So tell us your zip code,
State you live in
Utility company
Once all the incentives are added up you will see that a purchase is a better deal.

[russ]

My comments are above

Stan - Your original post said virtually nothing except proposed system size and that you were not dealing with a solar company.

Russ

[stanguard]

Scottsdale, AZ 85260

Russ's questions are too important to be glossed over.
You failed to give a zip code with this information we can do a rough estimation of system output and perhaps come up with what incentives are available to you.
The leasing company is making money on this, and generally much more than it will save you on the electric bill. Although for a system that size on an outright purchase you will most always come out ahead in the long run by purchasing not leasing.
So tell us your zip code,
State you live in
Utility company
Once all the incentives are added up you will see that a purchase is a better deal.

I live in Scottsdale, AZ 85260. My provider is APS

The system would cost 29000
Federal credit is 8700
state credit is 1000
APS credit 1.45 per watt is 9280
my cost is 10020

but then the APS credit is taxed as ordinary income, 1099 income. assume 28% combined state and federal tax rate. add 2600 to the cost for a grand total of

12620

the lease rate would be one time, 10020 minus a 2000 "special marketing campaign" for 8000 total.

nothing more would be owed the lifetime of the lease.

what other information can i provide?

[russ]

Hi Stan - I found your earlier replies - I wasn't looking hard enough.

1) You want net metering to get the maximum benefit from a 6.44 kW system - otherwise you seem to loose some at peak hours. Please see http://sharpusa.cleanpowerestimator.com/sharpusa.htm

2) Sharp calls for an average production of 864 kWh/month - meaning you still buy 530 kWh per month from the grid on the average.

3) The system provider would probably have to apply for the net metering? Rich probably knows this better. The companies leasing seem to stay away from that as there would be no benefit to them but they would have extra work I suppose.

4) SREC value varies from location to location and time to time. User Silverhorsefarm has done well with them.

5) Electric rates just say how much you are saving with solar. You may own all the power generated but if it goes back to the grid without net metering you would get nothing and no credit for it.

6) The upfront payment is one of the standard options many provide. With no advance payment there are monthly charges that typically escalate at 3 to 3.5% per year - sometimes for the duration of the lease.

7) System cost should be about 5$ per kW DC - that has trended down sharply over the past couple of years.

Russ

[Naptown]

The best suggestion as I cannot keep all of the state and local stuff in my head is to call a couple of local installers that do not do leasing. They will know what all the local incentives and will be up on srec values in your area. The price per watt was not bad it is under $5.00 but I dont know if this is micro or string inverters or whose modules they are using. I also don't know the local market

[KRenn]

Offered a 6.44kwh PV system for one upfront lease payment of around $7840. The lease term is 20 years and at the end of the term I can simply ask them to remove it from the roof at no cost to me. If I sell my house the lease goes to the new owner. There are no monthly payments and I keep all electricity that is produced. Has anyone else seen or heard of this?

The downside of the prepaid lease arrangement is if these guys go under, you're screwed. Nobody will be there to provide maintenance for the system and all kinds of other issues. I do think the lease is feasible, but such leases are also being proposed by companies with no know track record. Who is SunCap Financial? I did a brief search and found very little info.


Is it a wonder that companies like Suncap can provide this sort of pricing yet bigger companies such as Solarcity, Sungevity, SunRun and Centrolease can't touch their numbers? I'd be very wary and make sure its crystal clear who is going to handle the maintenance, warranty work and insurance in case the installer goes upside down.

[kpboudr]

SunCap lease

SunCap is owned by NRG Energy and was put in place to service the Green Mountain lease plans now that they have entered the solar installation space. Interesting thing is that they (Green Mountain) are openly communicating that solar doesn't currently make sense in Texas due to the cost of electricity and lack of incentives. Guess they're leveraging their green customer base to start.

[Sunking]

Here is a truth. If you lease something from someone, who is guaranteed to make money, and who is going to pay money?

[Mike90250]

Here is a truth. If you lease something from someone, who is guaranteed to make money, and who is going to pay money?

Like !

[russ]

Here is a truth. If you lease something from someone, who is guaranteed to make money, and who is going to pay money?

Well stated!

[MikeG]

Don't be so synical

I have dealt with SunCap, the unique part of their business is that they own the physical system that installed on your house. SunCap does end up contracting the installation out to an installer, but since they ultimately own the equipment, they have a vested interest in quality construction and power production. Part of their business is actually dedicated to overseeing the contractors in order to ensure that a proper system is installed correctly. SunCap is not the type of company that is going to just put up some junk on your roof as quickly and cheaply as possible. If you want solar power at an affordable cost, SunCap presents a very reasonable offer.

[russ]

First off - it is cynical, not synical.

SunCap will sit on the leases for the 20 years? Possibly but it would be unusual.

If you sell the house the system just goes to the new home owner? Not quite correct - the new owner has to be approved by the lease holder or the lease has to be bought out by the home owner.

For some a lease may be fine - it is not a minor thing to be done just because it feels good. People can find something else to talk to the neighbors about other than their new solar system. Your home is collateral for the lease - don't forget that.

Russ