Opinion on two offers

[J.P.M.]

Solar Pros - mine is a concrete s-tile... so what's the best suited mount types out there? Any product links or pictures will be great. I'm still unclear on what to go with, especially on options requiring drilling hole into tile vs. those not needing it... Thank you for helping out.

Don't drill into concrete tile.

[htycek]

I end up with SolarCity,
System size 3.64kW DC
14x Trina Panels ( 260W) with optimizer
SolarEdge SE3800
20 year warranty and maintenance
Final price $12700 which brings price to $3.5/W - $1000 cash back on PGNE connection date so technically I will end up with $3.25 per W
Price includes 10 year loan at 2.99%

Thank you for all suggestions.
J.P.M I guess I owe you a case of beer or something

[J.P.M.]

I end up with SolarCity,
System size 3.64kW DC
14x Trina Panels ( 260W) with optimizer
SolarEdge SE3800
20 year warranty and maintenance
Final price $12700 which brings price to $3.5/W - $1000 cash back on PGNE connection date so technically I will end up with $3.25 per W
Price includes 10 year loan at 2.99%

Thank you for all suggestions.
J.P.M I guess I owe you a case of beer or something

I'll take a pass , but thanx anyway. I kept the Guinness folks on 3 shifts for a long time keeping up with me until I took the pledge (quit) in '83 or '84 ( don't remember which, I was drunk that year).

Besides, you owe me nothing.

As for SolarCity, good luck. Not my house/money/life, but I wouldn't let SolarCity on my property. If it's been less than 3 business days you can still rescind the deal, and IMO only, that's the best thing you could do right now. Still, NOMB. See my 09/07/2016, 07:31 A.M post.

[kgvenkatesh]

Htycek- I don't know why you went with solarcity but for that panel/ inverter config I bet sungevity or Sunworks would have saved you a lot of $ with similar warranty etc (saying based on my recent experience with quotes). And I know better brand / better efficiency panels (lg320) with local/regional installers in SoCal or Bay Area would have still cost you same or less... anyway to JPM's point it's your money/your call. FYI I am only a homeowner and not a solar industry person, and sharing my comments only because I feel a cringe when common people get taken advantage of.

[kgvenkatesh]

Thank you JPM, I clearly see quickmount pv's quickhook (picture) meeting the no-drill-on-tile criteria but are there other products / manufacturers too?

Sorry this question should probably be a topic of its own... sorry for piggybacking here.

[J.P.M.]

Thank you JPM, I clearly see quickmount pv's quickhook (picture) meeting the no-drill-on-tile criteria but are there other products / manufacturers too?

Sorry this question should probably be a topic of its own... sorry for piggy banking here.

I went with post and double flashing not unlike the system that Git's photos show. Another product is tile hooks. I'm not a super big fan of tile hooks due to the moment arm on the design that can act as a lever to weaken the screw attachment over time due to movement from wind induced intermittent attachment (panel) loadings that can loosen the screw- deck attachment or maybe break a cement tile if the arm excursions are or become large(r), but that's still better than a hole drilled in a tile and caulked, made worse from a design standpoint by likely inability for future/periodic inspections.

[kgvenkatesh]

Thanks again JPM. Post and double flashing seems solid but invasive on tiles compared to tile hook (quickhook?)... is that a good trade off? Also seems it'd need quite a bit extra labor, so not sure if installer would pushback if I insist.

[J.P.M.]

. ....FYI I am only a homeowner....

I'd disabuse myself of the denigration. Home owners are one of, and often the sole reason for solar vendors' existence. Without you, they'd be SOL. There's just may be things you don't know (yet !) is all. Keep learning.

[htycek]

I understand why some don't like SolarCity ( I didn't like them before either when they where pushing ppa). I talked to 7-8 local installers and system in simillar size where quoted anywhere between $13k(small installer with only about 40 confirmed installations) and $22k (Sunpower).
i can see lower price per W but onl with larger systems. I'm trying to avoid small companies that might not last 25 years (warranty time) or won't charge extra for inverter replacement after few years. I also needed a loan and most of local installers had loand with higher intrest rate like 6% interest rate.
I have an option to go with Lg panels with them so I change that,inverters are pretty much the same for all my offers. last thing is pricing in my area is in average way higher then in bay area or South California.
Is there any specific reason hwy I should avoid Trina panels ?

[anthonymgrieco]

myarray is 8,2kwh via 32 CS260 panels SolarEdge A7200A Inverter 32 Power optimizers Ironedge Racking Installation and 25 year performance warranty
cost $19,260 or $2.35W Solar Energy Management, Tampa Forida
Go with SolarEdge (cost more but worth the ability to monitor each panel)

[J.P.M.]

Thanks again JPM. Post and double flashing seems solid but invasive on tiles compared to tile hook (quickhook?)... is that a good trade off? Also seems it'd need quite a bit extra labor, so not sure if installer would pushback if I insist.

You're welcome.

I'd not call it invasive. When penetrations are (properly) flashed, the tiles are cut to fit over/around the flashing and sealed just like they are for vents and other penetrations or transitions and a well known and developed method that, if done properly and professionally, has pretty much stood the test of time.

The tile hooks usually/often mean an array will be closer to the roof which will mean less air circulation under the array, increasing array temps. thus lowering efficiency a bit, and perhaps increase the likelihood of collecting debris under the array. While the back side of most arrays are not accessible, more roof to array clearance will allow some visual inspection. I don't see that as a bad thing.

Also, and hard(er) to document, I'd wonder about wind induced vibration/movement of the hook at roof embedment caused by the moment induced at roof embedment by the hook's arm, and how that might loosen the penetration over time at deck embedment, and/or/also bang up against the roof tile (think cracking a tile or noise) as the penetration gets looser and/or if the moment arm is long and/or not stiff/rigid enough.

Seems to me tile hooks were designed primarily to save time and money for installers. Now that, in and of itself, is not a bad thing. Saving money/time and/or simplifying things is not bad provided the consequences are considered. Sometimes what's touted as progress is a mask to cheap out at the expense of sound(er) design.

While not knocking installers, and not trying to oversimplyfying too much, they make a profit putting PV equipment (now pretty much a commodity) on your roof. That is in no way meant to imply they do not want to do a good job. But, it may indicate they are less concerned about the most efficient or most robust design, both of which will add to the cost and which, for (I'd guess) most owners, would be unappreciated and therefore seen as a waste of a vendor's time/effort/profit.

From a mechanical design standpoint, tilehooks while they seem to satisfactorily fulfill one design need to prevent H2O ingress - the lack of which can easily become very apparent with the first rain or roof soak - there are other, perhaps less obvious design considerations, a couple of which are noted above, that were not given as much consideration as might have been prudent, which shortcomings will only show up over time. How long ? Not as long as I'm willing to bet, which is one reason why I didn't use them.

Those possible shortcomings, including the ones mentioned above, and perhaps others, might show up in the future. In my engineering opinion, the designs of the tilehooks I've seen are a bit shortsighted.

Take what you want of the above. Scrap the rest.

[kgvenkatesh]

Great points and as always an excellent articulation! Thank you JPM. I am convinced and would prioritize this mounting aspect in my install. Also, I think I should copy paste this discussion into a new topic , just so it's more visible to future solar newbies also

You're welcome.

I'd not call it invasive. When penetrations are (properly) flashed, the tiles are cut to fit over/around the flashing and sealed just like they are for vents and other penetrations or transitions and a well known and developed method that, if done properly and professionally, has pretty much stood the test of time.

The tile hooks usually/often mean an array will be closer to the roof which will mean less air circulation under the array, increasing array temps. thus lowering efficiency a bit, and perhaps increase the likelihood of collecting debris under the array. While the back side of most arrays are not accessible, more roof to array clearance will allow some visual inspection. I don't see that as a bad thing.

Also, and hard(er) to document, I'd wonder about wind induced vibration/movement of the hook at roof embedment caused by the moment induced at roof embedment by the hook's arm, and how that might loosen the penetration over time at deck embedment, and/or/also bang up against the roof tile (think cracking a tile or noise) as the penetration gets looser and/or if the moment arm is long and/or not stiff/rigid enough.

Seems to me tile hooks were designed primarily to save time and money for installers. Now that, in and of itself, is not a bad thing. Saving money/time and/or simplifying things is not bad provided the consequences are considered. Sometimes what's touted as progress is a mask to cheap out at the expense of sound(er) design.

While not knocking installers, and not trying to oversimplyfying too much, they make a profit putting PV equipment (now pretty much a commodity) on your roof. That is in no way meant to imply they do not want to do a good job. But, it may indicate they are less concerned about the most efficient or most robust design, both of which will add to the cost and which, for (I'd guess) most owners, would be unappreciated and therefore seen as a waste of a vendor's time/effort/profit.

From a mechanical design standpoint, tilehooks while they seem to satisfactorily fulfill one design need to prevent H2O ingress - the lack of which can easily become very apparent with the first rain or roof soak - there are other, perhaps less obvious design considerations, a couple of which are noted above, that were not given as much consideration as might have been prudent, which shortcomings will only show up over time. How long ? Not as long as I'm willing to bet, which is one reason why I didn't use them.

Those possible shortcomings, including the ones mentioned above, and perhaps others, might show up in the future. In my engineering opinion, the designs of the tilehooks I've seen are a bit shortsighted.

Take what you want of the above. Scrap the rest.

[J.P.M.]

Great points and as always an excellent articulation! Thank you JPM. I am convinced and would prioritize this mounting aspect in my install. Also, I think I should copy paste this discussion into a new topic , just so it's more visible to future solar newbies also

You are welcome. Just question everything everyone says/writes - even and maybe especially me. None of us is as smart as all of us.

One/two final points:

For several reasons, most of which have nothing to do with aesthetics, my HOA does not allow concrete, clay or other rigid tile material to be removed from a roof where an array will be located and replaced by composition shingles. That method may save time and $$'s for the vendor, but has no benefit for the owner (other than maybe a phony and feel good save story from the vendor), either long term or short term, and increases the probability of problems in the future.

Get your roof inspected/serviced by a competent roofer. Expect to pay for the inspection. Solar will last a long time on a roof. Give the roof under the array a higher probability of lasting as long as the PV over it. Call it cheap insurance. Roof repairs under a PV array are expensive and involved.

If you do go the PV route, sit on the roof for the install, out of the way, and watch. Don't waste the installers time with a million questions but don't be afraid to observe and question things that seem not right.