Opinion on two offers

[Pierce1979]

If you like SunPower go with SunPower, I would get multiple quotes from installers that use them and then negotiate the price, that's what I did. People on the this forum are usually slightly hostile if people go with premium panels. Yes, electricity is electricity, but these things are going to be sitting on your home for decades! I just finished installing a 5 zone mini-spilt Daikin heating and cooling system, I could have saved a few thousand going with a brand like Gree, but decided against it. I like premium stuff. (shrug)

My original quote was:

4.5 KW system - Totaling 4485 Dc Watts
13 Sun Power SPR-X-21-345 watt panels
1 SMA 5000
Panel upgrade, I had an ANCIENT zinco panel that badly needed to be replaced.
I got them down to $20,792 (before 30% fed tax credit) with SDMCU financing at 1.89% for 12 years that price included the rate buy down with SDMCU. If I had paid cash it would have been about $2000 cheaper! Cash is king, but I didn't have 19k just laying around to burn. Be very pointed with the SunPower dealers, ask them flat out what is the "I really want your business price." So I would say you can do a little better on your SunPower quotes.

Anyway, I have very happy with SunPower system, its slightly outperformed similar sized systems that are different brands that I've found on PVoutput.org in my area, one complaint I have is I haven't seen any easy to my production data into PVoutput.

[htycek]

I did some research for installations in our area or cities close to us by looking at solar system building permits. my understanding is that that includes whole project value including parts and labor. So for example Solar city made few 3.5-4.2 D.C. systems for $2.3/W while some SunPower installers setup 2.9kW DC for $3.35/W and 4.2kW DC for $3.45/W sore there is for sure some room to negotiate.
I have 200A panel already so I don't think I need to replace it.

[J.P.M.]

If you like SunPower go with SunPower, I would get multiple quotes from installers that use them and then negotiate the price, that's what I did. People on the this forum are usually slightly hostile if people go with premium panels. Yes, electricity is electricity, but these things are going to be sitting on your home for decades! I just finished installing a 5 zone mini-spilt Daikin heating and cooling system, I could have saved a few thousand going with a brand like Gree, but decided against it. I like premium stuff. (shrug)

My original quote was:

4.5 KW system - Totaling 4485 Dc Watts
13 Sun Power SPR-X-21-345 watt panels
1 SMA 5000
Panel upgrade, I had an ANCIENT zinco panel that badly needed to be replaced.
I got them down to $20,792 (before 30% fed tax credit) with SDMCU financing at 1.89% for 12 years that price included the rate buy down with SDMCU. If I had paid cash it would have been about $2000 cheaper! Cash is king, but I didn't have 19k just laying around to burn. Be very pointed with the SunPower dealers, ask them flat out what is the "I really want your business price." So I would say you can do a little better on your SunPower quotes.

Anyway, I have very happy with SunPower system, its slightly outperformed similar sized systems that are different brands that I've found on PVoutput.org in my area, one complaint I have is I haven't seen any easy to my production data into PVoutput.

Pay your money - take your choice. Some folks like Mercedes, some like Fords. Either will haul groceries equally well. One comes with bragging rights which, BTW, is about all that comes with Sunpower.

PV is an appliance that's become a commodity, not a lifestyle.

As for being pointed: Tell a S.P. vendor you want $3.50/Watt like everyone else for about the same annual output and reliability and see how far that goes.

Take what you want of the above. Scrap the rest.

[Pierce1979]

Yep, I've read your argument before. I agree with you to some extent. Tho I would put an asterisk next to your statement "PV is an appliance that's become a commodity, not a lifestyle". ***An appliance that will be on your home for 30ish years.

[J.P.M.]

Yep, I've read your argument before. I agree with you to some extent. Tho I would put an asterisk next to your statement "PV is an appliance that's become a commodity, not a lifestyle". ***An appliance that will be on your home for 30ish years.

Agree or not as your opinion suits, but without predicting the future too much here, it looks like all quality PV, properly installed, will probably have about the same longevity and output - S.P. or anyone else's (quality) product - regardless of initial price, and all with about the same value added to the property (if any) at the end of that 30 yrs., and furthermore, regardless of any salvage/value added, long after most of the original buyers have moved on.

Garage door openers, water softeners and fridges, etc. are also commodities that can last 30 yrs., but don't usually cost several tens of thousands of dollars up front.

[sdold]

I know my racks will be up there for 30+ years, but I feel like a panel can be popped off and replaced any time. I'd focus more on the mounts than the panels. We replace panels occasionally at our solar radio sites, it's physically easy but sometimes hard to find a replacement that fits the space left by the old panel. Some of them are really old, Arcos, BPs, etc. installed 20+ (sometimes 30+) years ago. I can't think of any outright failures, usually it's lightning or rock/ice damage, or theft. Barring infant mortality they seem to last forever if not hit by lightning or bashed by a chunk of ice. They do degrade as expected, but fortunately radio power consumption has declined over time.

[htycek]

I just got SolarCity offer:
14x panels LG or Trina
Solaredge inverters and optimizers or sma
3.64 kW system
Warranty 20 years on all above
Prize before $15361 -$1000 cash back on connection day to Pgne so it's roughly $3.94 per W - getting closer

[J.P.M.]

I just got SolarCity offer:
14x panels LG or Trina
Solaredge inverters and optimizers or sma
3.64 kW system
Warranty 20 years on all above
Prize before $15361 -$1000 cash back on connection day to Pgne so it's roughly $3.94 per W - getting closer

Yea - Getting closer to getting screwed by one of the lowest of the bottom feeders of solar vendors maybe. Also, looks like real old merchandise from the 260 Watt size. See recent post from Elk Grove for LG equipment @ $3.16/Watt. Not an endorsement but an example of how easy it is to find better pricing. At least you're off the Sunpower kick.

[Git]

I just got SolarCity offer:
14x panels LG or Trina
Solaredge inverters and optimizers or sma
3.64 kW system
Warranty 20 years on all above
Prize before $15361 -$1000 cash back on connection day to Pgne so it's roughly $3.94 per W - getting closer

YOU need to pick a system and then ask Them for a bid.

Keep it Apples to Apples. In my area, LG 320 panels with SolarEdge Optimizers and a Solar Edge Inverter was a very popular package and that is what I went with. I spec'd out how many panels I wanted, how I wanted it installed, etc - and then recontacted the 10 or so contractors I had already contacted and let them all bid on the same thing. (AND don't forget the mounting system. If you have a concrete tile roof, you should be insisting on something like Quikmount PV system)

As much as I love shopping at Costco - I was very disappointed on a SunRun install in my neighborhood where they did some things on the roof that I know aren't to code (plumbing stacks)

When you go car shopping - do you let the car dealer sell the car THEY want to sell you or do you buy the car that YOU want?

What county are you in?

[htycek]

I see your point , thanks.
We located in Amador county

[kgvenkatesh]

Hi, I have a related question- I have a concrete tiled sloped roof... the building is fairly new, <2 years old. Could you share some wisdom on the ideal mounting and racking I should consider? The quotes I have received till date do not talk anything about those, all they specify is panels/inverter... what should I consider acceptable? Also, should I specify about wiring conduit inside/outside etc? Thank you

[Git]

I am certainly not an 'expert' but I would be more than happy to share what I found out. You are right though, I found that most contractors kind of 'gloss over' the actual installation method when it comes to attaching the panels to the roof...

I discovered that the roofing industry now considers solar panel attachments to be a 'penetration' and the best practice is a 'double flashed' installation. Probably the most popular method amongst top tier installers use a system from Quikmount PV, or something similar - and that was what I was looking for. You can see how labor intensive it is - but pretty much insures you won't end up with a leaky roof

When it comes to conduit - it is a personal decision. I prefered to have as much conduit concealed as possible. Also, I insisted that the panels be installed contiguous - no gaps between the panels. Plumbing stacks would have to be moved (in the attic) and dormer style vents would need to be changed to flat vents.

Here is some pics that Baker Electric took during the installation on my house this summer. They met/exceeded my expectations

Note - each of these mounts costs about $30 each (and there were 82 of them). A "Roof Hook" type mount costs around $10 each

1 The tiles are removed so they can properly locate the rafters to bolt the mount to them. Note the 'dormer' style roof vent in the upper right. The two vents that were going to be under the panels were changed out to flat "O'hagin' style


2 Here they are bolting the quikmount base with post on top of the original tar paper - note the sealant underneath and oozing up through

3 This is the bottom of the first flashing where they are applying sealant


4 This is the first flashing installed


5 They add a piece of tar paper over this flashing so that any water that would get under a tile (broken tile or something) should run over the base


6 The tiles either or notched or have a hole cut in them for the post to stick up through


7 A second metal flashing is installed on top of the tile. Here they are sealing the flashing to the post. Note how the flashing tucks under the roof tile above it so water should just run down the roof and over the mount


8 A rubber cover is added to seal the second flashing to the post and they then bolt on a mounting bracket


9 The rails are added and you can also see the optimizers and grounding wire. The conduit was run through the attic and comes up under the panels


10 Starting to install the panels to the racking



This is what you DONT WANT
They drilled a hole through the tile and then screwed a threaded rod through and gooped on the sealant


If you haven't read this thread already - you should check it out
https://www.solarpaneltalk.com/forum...-advice-please

[J.P.M.]

Any hole poked or screwed into a roof is a penetration. Always has been. Best practice, for the most part, has always been double flashing (or more). Always has been. You want nice, you pay nice.

[kgvenkatesh]

Thanks Git for your comments and awesome pictures. From the limited reading I did it appears cutting/drilling tiles can be avoided by going for a tile hooks solution (with flashing only on the underneath) as in the picture. From a quality and longevity perspective how does this compare to the mount solutions that requires cutting the tile?

[Git]

Personally, I think that is another excellent method but I believe it is designed more so for curved tiles.

The 3 or so what I would consider to be 'top tier' contractors that I contacted were all using the system that I showed

[ButchDeal]

There are many hooks specifically designed for flat tiles

[kgvenkatesh]

Solar Pros - mine is a concrete s-tile... so what's the best suited mount types out there? Any product links or pictures will be great. I'm still unclear on what to go with, especially on options requiring drilling hole into tile vs. those not needing it... Thank you for helping out.