Might have found a way to make it worth it in TX

[SunEagle]

Well without being rude, I had already planned on doing all of that. Thus far I have sealed all the cracks and found all the air leakages in the house that I can, via IR temperature sensor. I have also switched every bulb in the house to compact fluorescent. (woulda gone LED but they're much more expensive) When my water heater dies, and it will, I'll be going with a hybrid water heater which uses half the power of the same sized standard water heater. All my appliances are the latest energy star at the time of purchase, and in the fall I'm going to be installing attic foil or radiant barrier or the like. I'm doing everything I can to gut the electric bill, I just wanted that last push to go ahead and push the electricity cost down close to zero.

Sounds like you are on the right track. Maybe there will be a breakthrough in technology to help you get the rest of the way.

Keep reading and asking questions. Something may click and generate another good idea to pursue.

[Photonfanatic]

Thanks! First positive reply I think I've seen. Anyway, an update from Green Mountain Energy. I emailed 'em back, and I didn't hold any punches. I told 'em that 500 Kwh was ridiculously small, and there was no reason for me to switch to them from TXU. So he cleared up a couple things. You don't have to buy anything from them, or any of their approved solar "partners". He said an ebay or craigslist system would be just fine. That they'd still buy from me. He also said that they do have to come out and install some kind of...meter or something in order for them to be able to tell how much electricity I'm giving them. I do not know if that has a high cost, or not.

So I'm thinking, that perhaps I just get 1, 2, maybe 3 100 watt solar panels. Use those to at least eat into the 500 kwh that they'll buy from me at the rate they charge. That way, I'm not investing a whole lot, and at least I'm taking advantage of the net metering that i CAN get. Also I checked their rates and they're not 11.6 center per kilowatt hour, they're competitive with TXU. Can't recall off the top of my head what it was right now, but it was the same as TXU. 9.3 cents or 9.6 or something. So what do you guys think of the revised plan? I mean if I just buy enough to get that 500kwh, at least that's something, right? I only pay enough to where they will meet me, get it? That way, its on par with a full solar system in a good net metering state. Just... smaller.

[inetdog]

That they'd still buy from me. He also said that they do have to come out and install some kind of...meter or something in order for them to be able to tell how much electricity I'm giving them. I do not know if that has a high cost, or not.

Big missing link there: Green Mountain would be selling you the power, and could separately meter the power you generate, but they are not maintaining the network that transports the electricity to your home. They can work out any arrangement they want with you for net billing or otherwise, based on your usage and consumption, but you cannot connect your GTI to the grid without the permission of the wire owner and meeting any safety regulations that company may impose on your installation.

[Photonfanatic]

Wouldn't that be the same for ANY state though? Even ones with great net metering setups.

[inetdog]

Wouldn't that be the same for ANY state though? Even ones with great net metering setups.

That would be the same for any state which has provisions for third-party power brokers. But the sales staff of those companies may not be aware of what is required if PV is new to them or to their company.

[Ian S]

So I'm thinking, that perhaps I just get 1, 2, maybe 3 100 watt solar panels. Use those to at least eat into the 500 kwh that they'll buy from me at the rate they charge.

You're still missing a key point: that 500 kWh is excess over what you yourself use of your solar system's production. Take an extreme example: let's say you have a system with power output of a constant 5 kW between the hours of 10 am and 2 pm and you run your air conditioner such that your house power requirement is a constant 5 kW during that same time period. And let's say that continues for the entire month. At the end of the month, your solar system will have produced 600 kWh during that time period but your house will have used every last kWh of that 600 kWh during the time it was produced. You will not have used even one kWh of that 500 kWh monthly allotment from Green Mountain Energy.

[Photonfanatic]

So basically green mountain is saying "You have to produce 500 kwh extra, after your own usage, before we'll buy any from you.

[inetdog]

So basically green mountain is saying "You have to produce 500 kwh extra, after your own usage, before we'll buy any from you.

I thought they were saying they would buy up to 500kWh and no more.

[Ian S]

So basically green mountain is saying "You have to produce 500 kwh extra, after your own usage, before we'll buy any from you.

No, what they are saying is anything you produce and immediately use onsite goes unseen by them. Anything you produce but don't immediately use goes back to the grid and they monitor that. When that amount is between 0 and 500 kWh, they will pay you the full retail price for that power as a credit against cost of electricity you consume that month when your solar system is not producing anything e.g. at night. When the amount is above 500 kWh, they reduce that $$ credit by half. While this is not as good as true net metering, it's far better than nothing. It could work OK for someone who uses most of their solar production onsite as it's generated. It could also work for someone who gets generous incentives and/or whose energy rates are very high (think New York or California for examples) or who gets a screaming deal from an installer (fat chance of that). Unfortunately, you get no incentives apart from the Federal tax credit and you have relatively low electricity costs. Only you can determine if your usage patterns might mean you could use most of your solar production onsite when it's produced. And in that case you might be able to have a 15 yr to 20 yr payback time.

[bonaire]

Sigh. Well this makes me wonder if its even worth going solar in TX at all. Its also got me thinking about going off grid. Or, perhaps only partially on-grid. I have heard of people making car battery systems. Mainly on that TV show, Doomsday Preppers. There have been a few people on that show that set up a solar system, where the PV panels fed something like 24 or 48 car batteries. Then they'd just use what they needed, and sell the rest to the power company. Or if they went over what they had stored up, then they could throw a switch and be on-grid. I know this may be another one of my wacky ideas, but there is an auto salvage yard near me that sells used, working car batteries for $35 each. Perhaps there is some way that I could create a solar system this way? That would work to my advantage.

You can get 100 watt, Wsolar brand PV panels on ebay for $130. I could afford 10 of those no problem.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/WSolar-100-W...61233199089%26

Cheap panels do not equal cheap overall system. The problem with Solar is that it should be be large and cheap to be effective. Small (100W) and cheap is not effective and a waste of your time.

With retail rates under 7 cents in TX, going Solar makes no sense (to me anyway). Conservation, use of smart electricial appliances and perhaps other means of saving kWh usage is far cheaper - way cheaper than adding a solar power source against a utility that should stay cheap at least through 2017 if not for the next decade.

Put money into a growth mutual fund and gain income of 7-10% or more annually. Pay your utility bill from the gains off that mutual fund - that's true investing. Making money "work" for you. I'd rather see $30K going into a growth fund rather than $30K into a Solar PV system with limited paypack. Some say "power prices will rise". They have gone down the last two years and until the natural gas glut works itself out, there will be excess power production in the USA causing flat pricing in wholesale electricity. Power companies may raise rates, like in So. California, for other reasons like ballooning pension funds for employees, new regulations causing interconnects to large solar farms, new interconnects to other states because CA doesn't have enough power plants, etc.

[Sunking]

Put money into a growth mutual fund and gain income of 7-10% or more annually. Pay your utility bill from the gains off that mutual fund - that's true investing. Making money "work" for you. I'd rather see $30K going into a growth fund rather than $30K into a Solar PV system with limited paypack.

Smart man there, smarter than 95% of the rest of the people in the country.

[Ian S]

With retail rates under 7 cents in TX, going Solar makes no sense (to me anyway). Conservation, use of smart electricial appliances and perhaps other means of saving kWh usage is far cheaper - way cheaper than adding a solar power source against a utility that should stay cheap at least through 2017 if not for the next decade.

Texans may be in for a rude awakening.

[SunEagle]

Texans may be in for a rude awakening.

that wall street article is over a year old. How close were their estimates to reality?

[Photonfanatic]

No, what they are saying is anything you produce and immediately use onsite goes unseen by them. Anything you produce but don't immediately use goes back to the grid and they monitor that.

So what keeps people from creating a separate..."network" and putting their panels straight on the grid? Not using any of the power their panels are generating, just sending it straight off to be sold?

[SunEagle]

So what keeps people from creating a separate..."network" and putting their panels straight on the grid? Not using any of the power their panels are generating, just sending it straight off to be sold?

To install a generating system and connect it to the grid requires you to meet all of the state and local regulations to legally generate electricity. That is called co-generation and it is not simple to do.

Without the proper credentials you will not be allowed to make the connection.

If you went ahead and did it you will be found out and disconnected and fined.