HELP - SolarCity vs. SunPower Quotes

[SolarQuadrant]

I know solar rebates and permits are a mess - does my San Francisco Bay Area (Marin County) location really result in $40-50/mo more per month in payments? Sounds pretty steep to me! Am I just getting jacked because I didn't negotiate?

The permit fees are pretty reasonable at least in the east bay; it is around around $300-$400 and depending on the valuation of the project provided by the with the application. The norm is for up to 2 local inspections; then the PG&E request once local inspectors have signed-off for the net meter install. The PG&E process is straightforward too - with compete and accurate submission of the required documentation.

[gabrielrat]

If I remember correctly Gabe is in LADWP territory. They have a higher rebate $1.05 if memory is correct and are flirting with a FIT. The bay area is more than likely PG&E whose rebate is gone? Upfront money is everything with leases. Well not everything but it has a very large impact on your payment. That being said LADWP has much lower rates than PG&E. I suspect this is more so the cause than any type of car in the garage. Going from utility to utility in CA is like going state to state in price comparison. We have electricity generating fiefdoms here and we hardly ever get eaten by sharks when we surf.

Yes LADWP

[SoCalsolar]

If I remember correctly

If I remember correctly Gabe is in LADWP territory. They have a higher rebate $1.05 if memory is correct and are flirting with a FIT. The bay area is more than likely PG&E whose rebate is gone? Upfront money is everything with leases. Well not everything but it has a very large impact on your payment. That being said LADWP has much lower rates than PG&E. I suspect this is more so the cause than any type of car in the garage. Going from utility to utility in CA is like going state to state in price comparison. We have electricity generating fiefdoms here and we hardly ever get eaten by sharks when we surf.

[gabrielrat]

This is all very interesting. I've been weighing the SunPower vs Solar City decision myself, and decided on SunPower for the same reasons. Higher production, better quality, all for $4 a month more than SC. Here's the catch though: my lease numbers are way higher than yours!

SunPower Lease
Year 1 Estimated Production: 7,182 kWh
4.58 kW (DC), 4.05 kW (AC) SunPower System 14 x SunPower E20/327 Solar Panel
Solar Mount Mounting System
1 x SPR-4200p-TL (240) 4.2kW
Initial Payment $0
Monthly Lease Payment $111
New Utility Bill $5
Total Monthly Cost of Electricity $116
SunPower Cost per kWh1 $0.19
Utility Cost per kWh $0.19
Annual Increase to Monthly Payment 2.9%
Net Savings Over 20 Years $19,454
The Planet’s Most Powerful Solar® valued at $23,941

I'm wondering why? I've got an 800+ credit score, so I can't imagine credit is the issue. I know solar rebates and permits are a mess - does my San Francsico Bay Area (Marin County) location really result in $40-50/mo more per month in payments? Sounds pretty steep to me! Am I just getting jacked because I didn't negotiate?

As a point of reference, SC offered a $107/mo lease (including a main panel upgrade and Tesla High Powered Wall Connector upgrade) and Sungevity was $126/mo.

Maybe I should search the forums for related topics. But either way, hope these numbers (and this specific situation) might help as a direct comparison for other Bay Area solar wannabes...

I would ask them to quote with the Power One Inverter. That dropped the price significantly for me.

[bonaire]

Kballie, you mentioned tesla wall upgrade. Do you have a Tesla in the garage? If the installer saw that, they would add a couple cents per kWh because you appear to have funds. Don't show your hand in terms of assets owned.

The .19 kWh price is shown with a 2.9% annual increase. That is wht the lease will do even if your local utility lowers their price. You may want to find a good installer willing to do a similar system where you own it and they install it at a fair, about $5/watt, price turnkey. Prices for solar are cheaper in other states compared to Cal. Your utilities higher prices and permit fees are why you have the higher solar prices now.

It's a problem when a solar lease company starts with an equal price to the utility. They should start with .16 to make it attractive and fair.

[Naptown]

Get a quote from another SPR dealer pricing can vary widely.

[kbaillie]

My Bay Area Quote

This is all very interesting. I've been weighing the SunPower vs Solar City decision myself, and decided on SunPower for the same reasons. Higher production, better quality, all for $4 a month more than SC. Here's the catch though: my lease numbers are way higher than yours!

SunPower Lease
Year 1 Estimated Production: 7,182 kWh
4.58 kW (DC), 4.05 kW (AC) SunPower System 14 x SunPower E20/327 Solar Panel
Solar Mount Mounting System
1 x SPR-4200p-TL (240) 4.2kW
Initial Payment $0
Monthly Lease Payment $111
New Utility Bill $5
Total Monthly Cost of Electricity $116
SunPower Cost per kWh1 $0.19
Utility Cost per kWh $0.19
Annual Increase to Monthly Payment 2.9%
Net Savings Over 20 Years $19,454
The Planet’s Most Powerful Solar® valued at $23,941

I'm wondering why? I've got an 800+ credit score, so I can't imagine credit is the issue. I know solar rebates and permits are a mess - does my San Francsico Bay Area (Marin County) location really result in $40-50/mo more per month in payments? Sounds pretty steep to me! Am I just getting jacked because I didn't negotiate?

As a point of reference, SC offered a $107/mo lease (including a main panel upgrade and Tesla High Powered Wall Connector upgrade) and Sungevity was $126/mo.

Maybe I should search the forums for related topics. But either way, hope these numbers (and this specific situation) might help as a direct comparison for other Bay Area solar wannabes...

[KRenn]

SO i asked to quote with the Power One and Sun Power price came down.

Now I have 2 solid options:

SunPower 16x327 5.23 System
SolarCity 19x260 4.94 System

Both with Power One 5000 Inverter

Zero Down - Zero Escelator

SunPower is $4 higher - Seems like the winner.

As a side not Sungevity same system as SolarCity was $33 more expensive per month. Apples to Apples.

In that case, I pretty much see it as a no-brainer, better equipment, bigger system, better production, all for $4 a month more.

[gabrielrat]

SunPower price went down when they included Power One 5000 inverter

I've heard the same thing about SunPower and one other leasing company undergoing pricing drops to remain more competitive in the market, this was about 3 weeks ago, so based on what you wrote, there might just be something to it.

SO i asked to quote with the Power One and Sun Power price came down.

Now I have 2 solid options:

SunPower 16x327 5.23 System
SolarCity 19x260 4.94 System

Both with Power One 5000 Inverter

Zero Down - Zero Escelator

SunPower is $4 higher - Seems like the winner.

As a side not Sungevity same system as SolarCity was $33 more expensive per month. Apples to Apples.

[KRenn]

Might want to wait a minute or two before you sign if you choose to go with SP. They just had a large dealer conference in your area and that usually means a price reduction. Also they just signed a new 100 million dollar deal with US Bancorp to finance the next batch of leases. It's somewhat risky because the lease has been trending up in price but I am hearing that the next move in pricing (SP) will be down. You must be very confident that your LADWP will not be dropping anytime soon either. The SP lease algorithm is very sensitive to upfront money. I'm still in favor of a purchase if you can get good financing terms. But the Ben Q panels are ok.

I've heard the same thing about SunPower and one other leasing company undergoing pricing drops to remain more competitive in the market, this was about 3 weeks ago, so based on what you wrote, there might just be something to it.

[SoCalsolar]

Might want to wait a minute or two

Might want to wait a minute or two before you sign if you choose to go with SP. They just had a large dealer conference in your area and that usually means a price reduction. Also they just signed a new 100 million dollar deal with US Bancorp to finance the next batch of leases. It's somewhat risky because the lease has been trending up in price but I am hearing that the next move in pricing (SP) will be down. You must be very confident that your LADWP will not be dropping anytime soon either. The SP lease algorithm is very sensitive to upfront money. I'm still in favor of a purchase if you can get good financing terms. But the Ben Q panels are ok.

[KRenn]

That's not too bad especially if they handle the warranties through the life of the lease.

I have two PowerOne Aurora 3.6's and they're quite nice.

One thing he should be asking for is SunPower to include a PowerOne inverter as well, I'm a huge fan of those.

[Ian S]

Don't fuss over guaranteed production. EVERYONE underestimates for the guarantee because they don't ever want to pay out. My Sunpower guarantee for the first year is 11,768 kWh but it looks like the system is going to produce close to 13,000 kWh. Frankly, I'd go with the larger system since you're not covering the total electric bill anyway. The two bids start out at a virtual wash price wise but when electricity costs rise, the larger system will benefit you more in $$ saved.

[Naptown]

Well here's a bit of a conundrum
Ben Q is a division of AU Optronics.
The cells are manufactured in Malaysia in the AUO Sunpower plant. A collaboration between Sunpower and AU optronics.
Note these are NOT the same technology as a Sunpower cells.

[bonaire]

That's not too bad especially if they handle the warranties through the life of the lease.

I have two PowerOne Aurora 3.6's and they're quite nice.