Which system- grid....hybrid? (I'm new)

[pda1]

ROI is 6% without tax credit and 10 %with tax credit. 10% is pretty good ROI. 6% is just ok. if you have a trusted family member on the home deed they can technically take the tax credit for you.

That's pretty good but I don't understand where of how you determined those figures. A 6% return would be pretty good and acceptable but there are too many variables.

The problem then becomes one of cost of equipment and the need for replacement. Given the nature of electronics, the environments they'd be subject to and their reliability I'd suspect 25% or more of the system will fail in a 10 year, or shorter, period of time.

I'm learning more and more, sort of, about the entire process which is very beneficial. For some humor, This notion has been reinforced thoroughly; "if you're willing to spend money, anyone will promise you the world and take your money."

Thanks for the help fellas.

Peter

[Ampster]

if you have a trusted family member on the home deed they can technically take the tax credit for you.

They would have to be the one that purchased the system. The tax credit applies to a purchase of solar equipment. I don't know if they have to be on the deed as well, it just needs to be their residence as far as I know.

[khanh dam]

I suspect you're correct- the initial idea wasn't for tax saving but for contingency against long term power outages similar to what happened in Texas.
$5,500 for a 5 kw system would be much better...but you get what you pay for...so it seems.
Might be better just to see how the Amish live and copy them. Even for a hand well pump (not some piece of junk) the price's about $1,000 and that won't easily pressure a house water system!

ROI is 6% without tax credit and 10 %with tax credit. 10% is pretty good ROI. 6% is just ok. if you have a trusted family member on the home deed they can technically take the tax credit for you.

[Ampster]

I suspect you're correct- the initial idea wasn't for tax saving but for contingency against long term power outages similar to what happened in Texas.

$5,500 for a 5 kw system would be much better...but you get what you pay for...so it seems.
........

I do not think you will get many hours of backup and a 5kW system for $5,500. A small generator or portable battery with inverter could keep refrig cold plus run some lights for a day. I would not make any investment without understanding what your critical loads are. You would want to be able to support your loads for a reasonable time.

[pda1]

not being able to take advantage of a 26% tax break, makes it hard to justify.
a 5kw system shouldn't cost more than $5500. you can shop around, but what's the point if you can't save 26%?

I suspect you're correct- the initial idea wasn't for tax saving but for contingency against long term power outages similar to what happened in Texas.

$5,500 for a 5 kw system would be much better...but you get what you pay for...so it seems.

Might be better just to see how the Amish live and copy them. Even for a hand well pump (not some piece of junk) the price's about $1,000 and that won't easily pressure a house water system!

Thanks,

Peter

[khanh dam]

not being able to take advantage of a 26% tax break, makes it hard to justify.
a 5kw system shouldn't cost more than $5500. you can shop around, but what's the point if you can't save 26%?

[pda1]

pvwatts says 5358kw/year which is $381 dollars. for a 4kw solar array.
DIY cost will be around $4300 which means ($4300/$381) 11.3 years to break even assuming electricity prices do not rise and you do not take advantage of solar tax incentives.
if you factor in those incentives than about 8 years to break even.

over 25 years youd make about $5000 for your $4300 investment, 6% return on your investment if you die before 11 years then value is zero.

http://pvcalc.org/PVcalc?scale=1&t_useful=25&nominal_power=5&annual_yield=1339.5&r_degradation=0.5&t_guarantee=25&p_guarantee=0.071&p_guar_own=0&cons_own=0&p_income_now=0.071&r_inflation_energy=3&p_setup=1000&p_lease=0&r_insure=0.5&r_maintenance=0.5&t_finance=0&r_finance=4.15&own_funds=100&disagio=3&reserve_yield=3.5&r_inflation=2&loan_type=redeemable&redeem_type=uniform&tax_rate=0&lang=en&ccy=USD&index_linked=0&

link above has all the numbers
you can change cost to $740/kwh instead of $1000 to see benefits of tax rebate. top of 2nd collumn.
scroll past red formatting errors to see numbers.

Thanks for the candor and comments. To answer about the tax rebate- I have too many dependents and deductions and don't make enough money to even have to pay income tax (it's nothing to brag about- it's just the way it is) Poverty.

I got a price for a 5kw system from Alt E (great people and helpful too) which is about $8,500 delivered. Upon reflection, so to speak, the cost is too high for what I'd get in return and praying for longer, sunny days isn't realistic. If installed, my property taxes will go up and so will homeowners insurance. Combine that with a certain component failure rate and the need to replace parts it's not likely the system would pay for itself (but most things in life don't anyway).

But....it would be fun to do it but not a necessity.

Now, another idea might be just a simple system of panels charging a golf cart battery and then drawing power from the battery to run simple appliances- like computers.

Please tell me any other considerations your fellas might have about this matter- it's always helpful.

Peter

[khanh dam]

pvwatts says 5358kw/year which is $381 dollars. for a 4kw solar array.
DIY cost will be around $4300 which means ($4300/$381) 11.3 years to break even assuming electricity prices do not rise and you do not take advantage of solar tax incentives.
if you factor in those incentives than about 8 years to break even.

over 25 years youd make about $5000 for your $4300 investment, 6% return on your investment if you die before 11 years then value is zero.

http://pvcalc.org/PVcalc?scale=1&t_useful=25&nominal_power=5&annual_yield=1339.5&r_degradation=0.5&t_guarantee=25&p_guarantee=0.071&p_guar_own=0&cons_own=0&p_income_now=0.071&r_inflation_energy=3&p_setup=1000&p_lease=0&r_insure=0.5&r_maintenance=0.5&t_finance=0&r_finance=4.15&own_funds=100&disagio=3&reserve_yield=3.5&r_inflation=2&loan_type=redeemable&redeem_type=uniform&tax_rate=0&lang=en&ccy=USD&index_linked=0&

link above has all the numbers
you can change cost to $740/kwh instead of $1000 to see benefits of tax rebate. top of 2nd collumn.
scroll past red formatting errors to see numbers.

[khanh dam]

PECO - Got solar? Learn about Your Net Metering Bill - YouTube
I think this is your utility provider? 7.1 cents per kwh. pretty cheap!

[khanh dam]

many places will design the solar system for you for free or low cost

https://www.renvu.com

www.upwork.com has solar designers for $100 to $200
I would put together a system for you for free.
or you can just post on facebook forums BUT

if you aren't concerned about getting a 26% tax rebate, and you only use 450kw/month, why the heck are you looking at solar?
19380 zip code in PA has rates quoted from 7 cents to 14 cents.
do you have a large public utility with good net metering terms? Might take 5 years to break even
DO YOU HAVE A TINY CO-OP ELECTRICITY COMPANY WITH CRAP NET METERING RATES? you might die before you brake even.

if you are serious, post what you pay per kwh and the net meterig terms of your provider.
pm me your address and I'll give you some ball park.
I think you have to change profile settings to send Private Messages. this forum is locked down tighter than a prison.

[SunEagle]

That was supposed to be funny.

Sorry. It is sometimes hard to see if the post was sarcastic or not. I use to use the Comic Sans MS font when I trying to be funny but it has now been disabled.

[Mike90250]

exactly what JPM said

What does this mean?

I totally agreed with his summation and didn't want to re type essentially the same thing

[pda1]

If you have a standard layout, there are firms that will design a system for "free" in exchange for buying the equipment from them. I would not advocate this for complex system but if its flat roof grid tied system on new roof they are an option. Sure you may be able to save nickles and dimes by buying surplus panels but lot to be said for single source. You would need to see exactly what the AHJ and utility require for documentation. In most cases you need a stamped mounting design which several racking manufactures provide.and would be handed through the supplier. If you need a stamped electrical design that is more difficult but its depends on the AHJ. If you hire an electrician to do the tie in usually they an AHJ will waive a diagram but it up to the AHJ. The same with the utility, in many cases as long as licensed electrician does the tie in and they know the inverter capacity, they are all set. Others want drawings to spill coffee on.

BTW, note I mentioned "new roof". Its generally regarded as a poor idea to install solar on an aged roof that will need to be replaced in 5 or 10 years. As roofs age they do not take well to adding in mounts that are best flashed in. The potential for leaks and damage are higher as the roof ages and good luck ever trying to collect on roof guarantee if you add solar. Ideally you put on new roofing and pay the roofer to install the mounts. Alternatively if its fairly new roof, you can hire the original roofer to to they work or if you have the skills yourself the singles are a lot easier to lift when they are new. I did my roof a few years before solar but I stripped it and put ice and water shield top to bottom so even if the shingles leaked from the mounts I would never see it as the shingles are effectively just protecting the ice and water shield from UV.

The one firm that sells kits that I am somewhat familiar with is ALT E stores in Mass. I have bought from them in the past. No doubt there are more firms I am just not familiar with them.

The big caveat is once you have a few pallets of equipment dropped off, its too late to decide to hire the work out. Most installation firms only install what they sold and will not touch owner installed equipment. due to the potential hassle if something does not work.

I did all my installs including second floor roof solo. It was lot of planning and lot of work a couple of hours a day in the AM when it was light out but before the roof warmed up. Its real easy to get mild heat exhaustion working on roof on a sunny day and that is recipe for fall off the roof.

I (which means "me") just replaced the roof last month. I love the warranty on roofing materials- lifetime!...but just on material which is quite similar to paint. I timed the replacement just right- I'll never have to do it again!!! EVER!! Because....I'll be dead before it needs to be replaced. Now that's good planning. Knowing my luck I'll live to be 95 and will complain to the young whipper-snapper roofer who wants to charge $2,000 a square! What?! I only paid $150/square for the material 30 years ago!!!

Here's the worse part- the 3 installers I called a few minutes ago, and emailed them as well, have disconnected phones, dead websites or bounced emails. Ah, that's progress!

Thanks for the inspiration, regardless.

Peter

[peakbagger]

If you have a standard layout, there are firms that will design a system for "free" in exchange for buying the equipment from them. I would not advocate this for complex system but if its flat roof grid tied system on new roof they are an option. Sure you may be able to save nickles and dimes by buying surplus panels but lot to be said for single source. You would need to see exactly what the AHJ and utility require for documentation. In most cases you need a stamped mounting design which several racking manufactures provide.and would be handed through the supplier. If you need a stamped electrical design that is more difficult but its depends on the AHJ. If you hire an electrician to do the tie in usually they an AHJ will waive a diagram but it up to the AHJ. The same with the utility, in many cases as long as licensed electrician does the tie in and they know the inverter capacity, they are all set. Others want drawings to spill coffee on.

BTW, note I mentioned "new roof". Its generally regarded as a poor idea to install solar on an aged roof that will need to be replaced in 5 or 10 years. As roofs age they do not take well to adding in mounts that are best flashed in. The potential for leaks and damage are higher as the roof ages and good luck ever trying to collect on roof guarantee if you add solar. Ideally you put on new roofing and pay the roofer to install the mounts. Alternatively if its fairly new roof, you can hire the original roofer to to they work or if you have the skills yourself the singles are a lot easier to lift when they are new. I did my roof a few years before solar but I stripped it and put ice and water shield top to bottom so even if the shingles leaked from the mounts I would never see it as the shingles are effectively just protecting the ice and water shield from UV.

The one firm that sells kits that I am somewhat familiar with is ALT E stores in Mass. I have bought from them in the past. No doubt there are more firms I am just not familiar with them.

The big caveat is once you have a few pallets of equipment dropped off, its too late to decide to hire the work out. Most installation firms only install what they sold and will not touch owner installed equipment. due to the potential hassle if something does not work.

I did all my installs including second floor roof solo. It was lot of planning and lot of work a couple of hours a day in the AM when it was light out but before the roof warmed up. Its real easy to get mild heat exhaustion working on roof on a sunny day and that is recipe for fall off the roof.

[pda1]

By the way that Harbor freight solar system is useless for a grid tie and for that matter even for off grid it is way too little to provide you any power except to light those 2 lights that come with it.

That was supposed to be funny.