AHJ told me I need rapid shut down on my 10KW GTpergola array.

[khanh dam]

Last Wednesday substitute inspector came out and said he could not approve my solar install because he did not know enough about solar.
This week normal AHJ and a new guy come out and look at my 10KW solar pergola install. New guy want to know where rapid shut down is. I say there isn't one because solar panels are not on a habital structure. He says I still need one because the wiring is attached to my house. I tell him that is what the ac disconnect switches are there for. He finally says he's never seen solar on a pergola and will look into it.

After asking about how the panels are grounded they tell me they can't approve it because they dont' know enough about solar and need to talk to their expert so another wasted day and no approval yet.

I really hope I can get approved tomorrow. If not my utility 6K rebate might not happen. Yes my fault for cutting it close, but what kind of city sends out inspectors TWICE that are not trained enough to do their own jobs!

[PVAndy]

Last Wednesday substitute inspector came out and said he could not approve my solar install because he did not know enough about solar.
This week normal AHJ and a new guy come out and look at my 10KW solar pergola install. New guy want to know where rapid shut down is. I say there isn't one because solar panels are not on a habital structure. He says I still need one because the wiring is attached to my house. I tell him that is what the ac disconnect switches are there for. He finally says he's never seen solar on a pergola and will look into it.

After asking about how the panels are grounded they tell me they can't approve it because they dont' know enough about solar and need to talk to their expert so another wasted day and no approval yet.

I really hope I can get approved tomorrow. If not my utility 6K rebate might not happen. Yes my fault for cutting it close, but what kind of city sends out inspectors TWICE that are not trained enough to do their own jobs!

Rapid shutdown is for DC and only on occupied buildings. Not required on ground mounts, car ports or similar structures. Ask AHJ to show you code section you are violating. They should reference it in failed inspection report

Andy

[khanh dam]

so the AHJ ruled that because the inverters are on my house and there is a 30' long piece of DC conduit outside which remains energized ( that goes to said inverters) I am required to have rapid shut down. I would need to move the inverters under the pergola and run an underground line to my main panel in order for rapid shut down to not apply. this is a real bummer. I asked If I could get a variance and they said I can try, but their supervisor is unlikely to agree.

moving everything will be a 2 day job adding rapid shut down will be a 2 day job to remove all panels and install modules and add $2000 to the price of install.

[PVAndy]

so the AHJ ruled that because the inverters are on my house and there is a 30' long piece of DC conduit outside which remains energized ( that goes to said inverters) I am required to have rapid shut down. I would need to move the inverters under the pergola and run an underground line to my main panel in order for rapid shut down to not apply. this is a real bummer. I asked If I could get a variance and they said I can try, but their supervisor is unlikely to agree.

moving everything will be a 2 day job adding rapid shut down will be a 2 day job to remove all panels and install modules and add $2000 to the price of install.

AHJ is correct. Originally I didn't see any DC on house. I would install DC Disconnect on pergola

Andy

[khanh dam]

I have a fused midnite solar panel on the pergola, but the fuse holder specifically say not to open/disconnect under load. What specific dc disconnect equipment is needed at pergola

[Mike90250]

I use the midnight combiner box with DC breakers (from midnight) but I don't think it qualifies as a Disconnect, since it has to be opened and then 3 breakers turned off.

[PVAndy]

Look at these. https://www.industrialcontroldirect....f0lo0fbe8mdib1

[solarix]

Last time I looked, I couldn't find the "non-inhabited" exception in the rapid shutdown section of the code. Anyone know where its found?

[Ampster]

Last time I looked, I couldn't find the "non-inhabited" exception in the rapid shutdown section of the code. Anyone know where its found?

I don't know either, but I have a similar situation with panels on a pergola. The DC does enter the inhabited structure at the attached garage, so I installed a switch similar to the one @PVAndy posted. In my case since that inverter was battery powered it serves as the shutdown for the inverter. It does not provide panel level shutdown but using the RSD connection to shutdown the inverter and drop power to the house for the safety of firefighters. I am changing my configuration so I will not be able to test what the requirements actually are for my County. My choices would have be a relay where the DC entered the house or at a junction box near the pergola,

[SunEagle]

Unfortunately I think the need for a rapid shutdown on any structure is dictated by the AHJ or Fire Department. That will vary from place to place and not rely only on the NEC rules.

[khanh dam]

first 2 sentences. if firemen do not need to go on roof to save people on structure there is no reason to have rapid shut down.

It's stupid to require RSS shut down because 30 feet of high voltage conduit is on the side of a building. Firefighters would never be taking an ax to it and even if they did the ridgid conduit would take many blows to crack open.


690.12.jpg

[Ampster]

first 2 sentences. if firemen do not need to go on roof to save people on structure there is no reason to have rapid shut down.

I used the term Rapid Shutdown but what I was trying to describe is the process to shut down a battery driven inverter so that the GT inverter which is AC coupled to it is also shut down. The GT inverter does have native RSD with panels on the roof. What I realized is if there is a meter and a first responder pulled the meter or threw the main service panel breaker that process will not shut down the battery inverter. That would leave the AC coupled Solaredge on because the battery inverter will just think it is a power outage and continue to power the AC coupled GT inverter. So in my case, adding the RSD device will shut down the hybrid inverter which will also shut down the AC coupled GT inverter whose native panel level shutdown will also be activated.

As @Solarix mentioned in post #9 I do not know for a fact if RSD is required for a non inhabited building like my pergola. I am moving that part of the installation to another home so I won't be able to get an immediate answer from the AHJ. It will be a trivial part of the new installation because it amounts to a few feet of low voltage wire and a push button like @Andy posted because I believe in offering every safety feature for first responders. I will find out more with the new installation in a year if it has similar set up. There is a possibility that I may need to put my hybrid inverter and the LFP batteries in a non inhabited building because of the size of the batteries I am contemplating. It is a work in process and the answers will become more clear as those plans develope.
Here is the device I installed. OUTBACK-IMO-ESW1-2T.jpg

[khanh dam]

I used to volunteer for Red Cross. If firemen want to stop house fires they should lobby for kitchen fire suppression systems that’s where most house fires start

this RSS stuff just adds thousands of dollars to a solar array and firemen will avoid the Oc array anyways. Show me a fireman dumb enough to bust through an array. It’s common sense

[Ampster]

I used to volunteer for Red Cross. If firemen want to stop house fires they should lobby for kitchen fire suppression systems that’s where most house fires start

Be careful what you wish for. Although the RSD requirements have nothing to do with preventing fires. It is all about first responders safety. I have heard some people speculate that Enphase and Solaredge saw RSD coming and did not oppose it because their stuff already met the standards. I do support RSD and anything that makes these systems safer for firefighters and grid workers.

this RSS stuff just adds thousands of dollars to a solar array and firemen will avoid the Oc array anyways. Show me a fireman dumb enough to bust through an array. It’s common sense

I agree with you about the response that you got from the AHJ. They should be better informed or send the right guy. On the other hand, as I said above, I do not think we can take the safety of first responders lightly. They do need to be able to work on roofs safely and should not be exposed to high voltages when they have pulled a meter of turned off the main breaker. Grid workers are in that category when it comes to emergencies.

[Mike90250]

If you are referring to my post, I used the term Rapid Shutdown but what I was trying to describe is the process to shut down a battery driven inverter so that the GT inverter which is AC coupled to it is also shut down. The GT inverter does have panels on the roof. That GT inverter is a Solaredge and it natively has RSD. Pulling the meter or throwing the main service panel breaker will not shut down the battery inverter or the Solaredge because the battery inverter will just think it is a power outage and continue to power the AC coupled GT inverter.

I do not know for a fact if that is required and I am moving that part of the installation so I won't get an immediate answer from the AHJ. It will be a trivial part of the new installation because it amounts to a few feet of low voltage wire and a latching push button switch, I will find out with the new installation in a year which will most likely have a similar set up.

NO NO NO !!!!!

You are NOT allowed to make up terms for your convenience. Or to make you feel important. Or whatever. This is a Solar forum. We deal with Solar terms.

The Code and industry standards apply here. "Rapid Shutdown" is the code method to quickly limit voltages at solar panels and roof top wires. These devices are UL certified/approved.

you can kludge together anything you want, but you cannot call that contraption Rapid Shutdown - that name is already in use, and solar neophytes have enough to learn without your BS about few feet of wire and push button switches being your version of rapid shutdown.

You and I seem to keep going around and around about your playing fast and loose with safety, bad advice and now inventing unapproved gear. Throwing a couple "I don't know" into the middle does not help your cause, thems just weasel words and do nothing.

And it applies to charge controllers too, if the DC wires are on the roof or enter the house:

https://www.altestore.com/blog/2020/07/rapid-shutdown-blog-part-2-charge-controllers/#.X8s8OvV7nIU

use a search engine and search for "solar rapid shutdown requirements" before you let the monkeys loose on the typewriters