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  • SDG&E Net Metering TOU Plans

    I took the plunge and purchased a 6.7kw system for my roof consisting of 20 LG 335w panels with optimizers and a SolarEdge SE6000H inverter. Just passed the city inspection yesterday and am waiting for the PTO from SDG&E. I am still on a tiered rate structure so I have to pick a TOU plan or they will automatically move me to the default DR-SES rate for solar users. After reviewing all the plans and doing some research it seems to me that the TOU-DR plan is better for net-metering solar customers without battery than the DR-SES plan. The TOU-DR plan only has three time periods: On-Peak $0.46, Off-Peak $0.40, & Super Off-Peak $0.35 and since the difference between on-peak and off-peak is only $.06 it seems to be more cost effective than the DR-SES plan in which the difference between On-Peak $0.54 and Off-Peak $0.30 is about $0.24. Using the TOU-DR plan you would have to generate less during off-peak to off-set your on-peak use when you are pulling from the grid compared to the DR-SES plan. Also the TOU-DR plan is tiered, so if you stay in the 1st tier the prices will actually be about $0.10 less. If the system offsets 100%+ of your use the prices per kwh shouldn't really matter, it's more about trying to get the least differential between on and off peak prices.

    Anyone have any thoughts on this?
    Last edited by PugPower; 10-15-2019, 05:35 PM.

  • #2
    Hello PugPower and welcome to Solar Panel Talk

    I can't help you with your questions but I can say that I am happy I don't pay more than $0.11/kWh for my electricity. I wish you luck with your new system and hope you get set up on the best plan you can.

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    • #3
      PugPower - I got my PTO from SDG&E in April 2019. Following the suggestion of my install company (San Diego County Solar) I chose the TOU-DR plan. They were able to evaluate my historic electric use from the Green Button data I gave them and ran my usage and expected solar production thru various SDG&E rate plans. Their conclusion was that the TOU-DR plan was best for my situation. At 12 LG335 panels with a SolarEdge invertor my system is smaller than yours. So far the system performance is running ~15% above the forecasted performance and my SDG&E bill is accumulating at the minimum monthly rate ($0.338 per day). About half of my bill is the NBC charges and the other half is the Minimum Monthly Charge. My Off-Peak and Super-Off Peak solar production more than offsets the On-Peak demand that I pull from the grid so I am currently accumulating more credits than I am using. This was an intentional design decision as I anticipate purchasing an electric vehicle in 2020 and wanted the spare solar capacity to cover the increase in future demand.

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      • #4
        If you want to make an informed choice it'll take a bit of work and it will always be an estimate based on projecting prior use onto future use and how rates and schedules will change in the future.

        The easiest/easiest way to get as good a guess as possible without a lot of work is to use the SDG & E website and trust them and their methods to get a good result. See their website for details. They probably do something with their algorithms similar to what I've done but are a bit sketchy about sharing intermediate results.

        The method I've developed gives a lot more information. Abstract: The steps I use involve spreadsheets, the green button SDG & E prior usage date, PVWatts and the tariff sheets as published by SDG & E.

        I've got the method dialed in pretty good. Details if you want them, but be warned it's not for the feint of heart. Not conceptually difficult but to do it right forces people to learn more about electric rates, POCO pricing policy and other POCO minutia and their usage than they probably want to know.

        FWIW, I compared my results with what SDG & E suggested and we came to the same conclusion. For me that conclusion is, at this time changing to any T.O.U. plan would cost me $$. So, I'm on good old tiered rates schedule DR.

        Welcome to the neighborhood.

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        • #5
          JPM, I realize that the tiered rate is better n most cases, but if you enter into a Net Metering with SDGE now, you must go to TOU.

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          • #6
            Originally posted by PugPower View Post
            ................. prices per kwh shouldn't really matter, it's more about trying to get the least differential between on and off peak prices.

            Anyone have any thoughts on this?
            That depends on your load profile and if you are able to load shift now or in the future.
            It sounds like you have picked a plan that works for your load profile as you understand it today. That seems to be the conclusion of @RichardCullip. He had the advantage of his installer running his load profile against various rate scenerios. If your installer can do that it would give you more insight into your load profile.

            Rates and the TOU time periods that those rates are based on will most likely change over time and they are not likely to favor solar generation. In order to optimize the return on your system it is useful to be aware of usage patterns as they affect your future bill's. Solar production can be estimated somewhat consistently subject to weather and soiling. Usage may change, for example if you buy an EV or add some other large electrical load.

            For example, I drive an EV and have electric water heating. I also have Air Conditioning loads during the summer. What I look for is the largest differential between peak and off peak rates. My theory is to sell as much generation (inverted power) as possible during peak and shift loads to the lowest rate.
            9 kW solar, 42kWh LFP storage. EV owner since 2012

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            • #7
              Originally posted by PugPower View Post
              JPM, I realize that the tiered rate is better n most cases, but if you enter into a Net Metering with SDGE now, you must go to TOU.
              I'm very aware that the old tiered rate tariffs are not available to those residential users w/PV under NEM 2.0. I'm on NEM 1.0 and sch DR with the old and simple tiered rate schedule is still available to me - but, like all other NEM 1.0 SDG & E customers, I had to actively opt out of being switched over to DR-SES which is the default tariff sch. for all SDG & E customers with NEM 1.0 or 2.0.

              However, and depending on usage quantity and usage patterns, a T.O.U. tariff may or may not result in a lower annual electric bill over any 12 billing periods. A user's got to get the numbers, either by doing it on their own or having it done for them (by the POCO for example).

              Sch DR, the old tiered rate tariff, is (slightly) better for me mostly because my net usage after solar generation per billing period, and so annual net usage, always stays in tier one. If so, at current sch. DR rates, my per kWh rate for everything I do buy from SDG & E is priced at $0.29233/kWh in summer and $0.26627/kWh in winter with a side bonus: I don't need to fart around with things like doing laundry between midnite and 6 A.M, etc. or curtailing activities during peak hours.

              A slight disadvantage for me by staying on sch. DR: Again, mostly because of low net usage, most of my excess generation for any billing period is valued at those same low rates. That means I lose out on some peak generation rate if I was on T.O.U., but it's about $20/yr. or so. Long, boring calc.

              As for tariff schedules that combine or blend a T.O.U. rate and a tiered rate by layering a tiered rate over a T.O.U. rate, as, for example, with sch. TOU-DR, and again, depending on usage pattern and net use after solar generation, that too may or may not result in the lowest annual electric bill when comparing options. Then too, like all time dependent rate schedules, and also the customer's temperament and rate awareness, a value for the PITA factor for time shifting needs to be applied.

              Users would be well advised of the need to compare all rate options by doing so on their own after getting familiar with how POCO's charge for their product on their own and hoping they get it at least close to right or, if annual electric bill size is the only consideration, trust their POCO to do it for them and for that POCO to be not only honest about it, but calc. it in ways that reflect reality.

              Either or any way, any result, even done knowledgably and with care will always be a loose approximation if for no other reasons than:
              - PV system output is highly dependent on variable weather
              - Usage quantity and patterns can and probably will vary both short and long term
              - POCO rates and rate schedules will change.

              I always start by always remembering that I don't pay for what I don't use either by lifestyle changes or common sense use reduction and conservation efforts, and then look for ways to minimize the cost of what I do buy after turning stuff off and buttoning up the house as much as my lifestyle suits and allows.

              Comment


              • #8
                Agreed, lifestyle change is a big factor in choosing a TOU rate. For me personally, I refuse to allow SDGE to dictate when I do laundry or other energy intensive activities. I could shift my load to off-peak or super-off-peak, but I do not feel I should have to. I will try to do laundry before 4PM or after 9PM, but if I can't under TOU-DR plan the penalty is minimal and will probably be offset by any excess generation I have at the end of my true-up period.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by PugPower View Post
                  Agreed, lifestyle change is a big factor in choosing a TOU rate. For me personally, I refuse to allow SDGE to dictate when I do laundry or other energy intensive activities. I could shift my load to off-peak or super-off-peak, but I do not feel I should have to. I will try to do laundry before 4PM or after 9PM, but if I can't under TOU-DR plan the penalty is minimal and will probably be offset by any excess generation I have at the end of my true-up period.
                  Well, it's one determining factor in the choice matrix.

                  And hail the freedom to choose.

                  Is this a great country or what ?

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by PugPower View Post
                    Agreed, lifestyle change is a big factor in choosing a TOU rate. For me personally, I refuse to allow SDGE to dictate when I do laundry or other energy intensive activities. I could shift my load to off-peak or super-off-peak, but I do not feel I should have to. I will try to do laundry before 4PM or after 9PM, but if I can't under TOU-DR plan the penalty is minimal and will probably be offset by any excess generation I have at the end of my true-up period.
                    I use TOU-DR-P with an EV & solar. Except on the occasional "Reduce Your Use" days, the on-peak vs off-peak difference is about 0.01. And as nobody is at home during RYU hours (which occur occasional called summer weekdays 2 to 6pm, none in 2019), I can actually get great credit from solar generation.

                    Much less stress than when the on-peak vs off peak is .20 or .25 c difference.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      TOU-DR-P is great if you can observe those RYU days, if not there is a hefty penalty of $1.16 per kWh. OUCH!. I work from home and I know SDGE pulls out the RYU card on the extremely hottest days of the year, so that's no gonna work for me. If I remember correctly there were quite a few RYU days in 2017-2018. None so far this year. Wonder what happened?

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by PugPower View Post
                        TOU-DR-P is great if you can observe those RYU days, if not there is a hefty penalty of $1.16 per kWh. OUCH!. I work from home and I know SDGE pulls out the RYU card on the extremely hottest days of the year, so that's no gonna work for me. If I remember correctly there were quite a few RYU days in 2017-2018. None so far this year. Wonder what happened?
                        Do you have solar? The RYU period is 2pm to 6pm and on those hours & days you'll be generating for sure, days will be long and skies clear. If I were in your position and had to work, I would run the A/C very cold until 2pm, turn it off, and hit the pub at 4:30. Turn AC back on at 6. Remember that TOU-DR-P on non-RYU peak hours are only 1 cent more than off-peak, this is a great benefit compared to DR-SES or EV-TOU2 or the others which have a big peak vs off-peak hit.

                        I was out of the house and made $10-$12 in credit per RYU day, and my system has an inverter max of 3.8 kW.

                        And as I have an EV, the 10c gap (vs typical 6c on most other plans) in summer off-peak generation time vs super-off-peak consumption is beneficial too. I'm going into winter with $360 of NEM credit with 785 kWh of net generation since my true up. That's like getting 45.8c/kWh for my generation, way higher than the rate plans.

                        Anyway what I think has happened this year is more utility-scale solar supply. And that's not going to stop, there may no longer be any RYU days. Bet the utility will then try to can TOU-DR-P, so get on it while you can.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by DrChaos View Post
                          ...............,

                          Anyway what I think has happened this year is more utility-scale solar supply. And that's not going to stop, there may no longer be any RYU days. Bet the utility will then try to can TOU-DR-P, so get on it while you can.
                          Interesting, I got several Critical Peak Pricing this year with some properties in SCE service area. One meter has solar on a NEMV account so it is hard to tell what if any benefit I got. I also haven't really looked at the duck curve recently to see if there is any correlation.
                          9 kW solar, 42kWh LFP storage. EV owner since 2012

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                          • #14
                            Originally posted by DrChaos View Post

                            Do you have solar? The RYU period is 2pm to 6pm and on those hours & days you'll be generating for sure, days will be long and skies clear. If I were in your position and had to work, I would run the A/C very cold until 2pm, turn it off, and hit the pub at 4:30. Turn AC back on at 6. Remember that TOU-DR-P on non-RYU peak hours are only 1 cent more than off-peak, this is a great benefit compared to DR-SES or EV-TOU2 or the others which have a big peak vs off-peak hit.

                            I was out of the house and made $10-$12 in credit per RYU day, and my system has an inverter max of 3.8 kW.

                            And as I have an EV, the 10c gap (vs typical 6c on most other plans) in summer off-peak generation time vs super-off-peak consumption is beneficial too. I'm going into winter with $360 of NEM credit with 785 kWh of net generation since my true up. That's like getting 45.8c/kWh for my generation, way higher than the rate plans.

                            Anyway what I think has happened this year is more utility-scale solar supply. And that's not going to stop, there may no longer be any RYU days. Bet the utility will then try to can TOU-DR-P, so get on it while you can.
                            TOU-DR-P has super off peak pricing during March and April from 10AM to 2PM when your PV is producing the most.This translates to a $0.11 difference between on and off-peak pricing during those months. Also SDGE currently promotes RYU potential times are from noon to 9 PM, but no more than 4 hours. The RYU is like a audible the POCO can call whenever it likes. IMO it's too much of an unknown.
                            Last edited by PugPower; 10-23-2019, 05:03 PM. Reason: Correction

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                            • #15
                              Originally posted by PugPower View Post

                              TOU-DR-P has super off peak pricing during March and April from 10AM to 2PM when your PV is producing the most.This translates to a $0.11 difference between on and off-peak pricing during those months. Also SDGE currently promotes RYU potential times are from noon to 9 PM, but no more than 4 hours. The RYU is like a audible the POCO can call whenever it likes. IMO it's too much of an unknown.
                              Every SDG& E NEM 2.0 non grandfathered tariff has the March & April super off peak 10 A.M to 2 P.M. carveout.
                              RYU calls can be lucrative.
                              If a user deems the bill reduction realized by RYU to be a greater advantage or have more value than does the PITA factor of being without power in mostly unpredictable ways, then it becomes more viable.
                              My guess is a lot of folks will take the bait of what looks like a generous offer of a high reimbursement rate and then bitch like crazy when the power goes out while they're watching dumbfux news.

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