NJ install - questions on size and micro-converter vs optimizer

[sunpoweredev]

I did talk with GPE about micro-inverter vs SolarEdge. Now, I realize this is a sales rep so taken with a pound of salt, but he said they used to use micro-inverters and saw way too many failures so stopped using them. They claim that they are a large SolarEdge installer so SolarEdge gives them some spare items to keep around so they can usually get to failures in a matter of days. I do understand that the role of the sales rep is to get to get me to buy so not sure how true the info is.

Yeah, I need to talk with the GPE sales rep on pricing because as you said, it will be very tight to get done by end of year and federal tax credit drops 4% next year. Thanks for the pricing info @sunpoweredev If possible, can you send me an email to my username at gmail with your name so I can bring up your pricing with Tim? If not I understand. The good news is that we have had the M3 for over 1 year so the energy usage is built into our 12 month rolling average.

I too stumbled onto this forum while I was looking into a PV system. It can definitely be information overload. In general, the experienced folks here prefer the most simple setup - the most simple string inverter. The theory is the less stuff in the system, the less that can go wrong, and I do subscribe to that theory especially when it comes to a car with many electronic gadgets. But for many a straight up string inverter won't work due to shading, system being multi azimuth, etc, so the next least complex system would be an optimizer setup as Mike90250 pointed out above.

Sure I will shoot you an email. If you do go with GPE see if I can earn a referral bonus with them

Edit: BTW when I met with my salesman at GPE (Sonny), I straight up told him what I want (Panasonic panels and optimizers) to cut through it all, and that I'm looking for him to beat the $/watt figure. His only question to me was cash or finance. I told him cash, showed him my electric bill, and he made a preliminary design with 37 panels and gave me the $2.91/watt figure. I'm not sure the figure of 37 panels triggers a certain volume discount or something, but couple other members here also have 37 panels, or is simply coincidence. With a smaller system there may be less latitude on pricing, so keep that in mind. I was also able to get an equivalent of 3% off by getting them to waive the credit card surcharge. Other than the initial 10% deposit, they charge 3% for using a credit card on the remaining 90% of your balance. My reason for using a credit card was that I've been burnt before with a landscaper - after giving them a check for 50%, they did half the work and disappeared. Earning a bunch of points on the card is also very nice

[robstrash]

Sorry, I keep forgetting to update this thread. I had my roof measured by Green Power Energy last week so waiting on the final plans. They did say they can get price down to $3.00 per watt if I do 30 panels (was 28) so planning on doing that. Also had roofing company come this week so waiting for their estimate too. So sitting and waiting right now.

[Markyrocks69]

Waiting lol definitely a huge part of the process.

[shet]

I went in for SolarEdge inverter inside my garage (my garage space is tight but at the same time did not want inverter exposed to rain on the outside siding) rather than Enphase micro-inverters on the rooftop. Btw stock price of Enphase has shot up all the way from 1$ to around $23 now. It was $33 till a few weeks ago.

Also, I live in Northern NJ and got my panels installed in 2016. I went with Green Power Energy (along with NJ Solar loan program with SREC of $290) because I felt they will be around for some years though I tried my best to find somebody near Northern NJ or even the NY border areas like Rockland county. I felt they will ignore me since they are way down in the southern part of NJ. However last year i.e. 2 years after installation, my panel wiring got chewed up by squirrels. They came over and replaced a few optimizers. They did have me sign an estimate before starting work but eventually they never sent me a bill. Hope they are not reading this and then "remember" to send me the bill . I hope they are around at least for the next 15-20 years.

And today I noticed one of my panels is producing 1/3 power of that of the surrounding panels. I have emailed GPE just a few minutes ago. Lets see what they respond with. Now that's another advantage of Solaredge: their monitoring website. Initial squirrel damage a year ago was discovered because I noticed 2 panels not producing power at all. I login once a week into the monitoring website.

I also had a squirrel guard installed by another firm they recommended before the optimizer and panels were fixed.

[NJturtlePower]

robstrash Related to your OP, I see GPE just posted an article they linked on Facebook about the micro vs. opti battle.

https://greenpowerenergy.com/solaredge-or-enphase-which-inverter-is-right-for-your-solar-installation/

[robstrash]

We had lots of bad weather in mid December and it took 1.5 weeks to finally get the panels installed on Dec 18 (rain or snow almost every day). Township inspection is scheduled for tomorrow and once that is done and we get signed permit, we can contact power company (JCPL) to get all metering set up.

The GPE person will be here tomorrow when the inspector shows up. He is suppose to show me how to do everything. Is there anything in particular that I should ask about?

I'm disappointed that we couldn't get everything done in 2019 as I'm pretty sure I won't get my federal tax credit until filing 2020 taxes in 1 year since we still have to make final payment. Oh well, life goes on, just hoping to get everything hooked up and working soon.

[NJturtlePower]

We had lots of bad weather in mid December and it took 1.5 weeks to finally get the panels installed on Dec 18 (rain or snow almost every day). Township inspection is scheduled for tomorrow and once that is done and we get signed permit, we can contact power company (JCPL) to get all metering set up.

The GPE person will be here tomorrow when the inspector shows up. He is suppose to show me how to do everything. Is there anything in particular that I should ask about?

I'm disappointed that we couldn't get everything done in 2019 as I'm pretty sure I won't get my federal tax credit until filing 2020 taxes in 1 year since we still have to make final payment. Oh well, life goes on, just hoping to get everything hooked up and working soon.

Good to hear it's at least coming to completion though... Better late than never as they say right?

Are you sure you need to contact JCP&L personally for the meter swap? GPE did it for me as soon as they got the final approval from the state program after install and local inspection. They actually turned on my system remotely about a day and a half BEFORE the net meter swap which is good and bad...good because the SREC meter starts counting, but bad because you won't be credited for the production to JCP&L until the swap. Doesn't matter much right now in the solar lows of early Jan.

I haven't read into the details of the tax form as far as when you can claim a system in service, but IMO your system was INSTALLED in 2019 regardless of PTO, so you'll need to discuss with a tax guy or somebody familiar with the official process....there may be some gray area to work with there.

As far as what to ask, until the system is officially online there is not much to see or do. Once it is online you'll want to request full admin access rights as the system owner for the SolarEdge portal from GPE. They seem to initially give very basic guest access just for viewing, but you'll need full access if you want API access for sites like PVOutput that allow automatic inverter reporting, basically allows for mirroring of the data to the third party site.

Also since your PTO date will be sometime this month, you'll want to reset your solar interconnection month with JCP&L ASAP to March as recommenced by GPE so that you'll be banking in the top solar months upcoming and burning up your credit in the winter ensuring you'll use up your bank before the new solar year to avoid JCP&L paying you out at their much lower wholesale rate. They'll give you all the details about that soon.

Lastly, a few weeks after PTO you'll hear from GPE for a follow up in person meeting to discuss any lingering questions or concerns and they'll provide you with a spiral bound packet with all your system design, permits, details in one neat package vs the oversize stuff you already have. They'll also set up install of your critter guards by their third party vendor. All in due time..... Congrats again!

Did you by chance use my referral? Just wondering if I should be expecting a gift in 2020

[robstrash]

Did you by chance use my referral? Just wondering if I should be expecting a gift in 2020

Yes, I used your referral so you should get that when it's final I assume. Thanks for the info, I have a list to ask about tomorrow. I'll have to read up on the tax stuff and get with my tax person to see what they say.

[RichardCullip]

Yes, I used your referral so you should get that when it's final I assume. Thanks for the info, I have a list to ask about tomorrow. I'll have to read up on the tax stuff and get with my tax person to see what they say.

I suspect that it's going to be hard to claim a 2019 tax credit for money spent in 2020 but I could be wrong.

[NJturtlePower]

Yes, I used your referral so you should get that when it's final I assume. Thanks for the info, I have a list to ask about tomorrow. I'll have to read up on the tax stuff and get with my tax person to see what they say.

Awesome! Thanks so much for following through.

To @RichardCullip's point above, I pulled up the IRS Form #5695 from last year (2019 form not yet available) here: https://www.irs.gov/forms-pubs/about-form-5695

On the form and in the instructions it only speaks in terms of qualifying "Installation" in the given year, no dates of initial or final payments, etc required.

Also see the "Who can Take the Credit" section of the instructions page where it states.... "Costs. For purposes of the credit, costs are treated as being
paid when the original installation of the item is completed...."

IMO installation and PTO are two separate things and I would argue yours is in fact a 2019 install with no way for the IRS to dispute that fact.

[JSchnee21]

If the entire system was installed in 2019, and all you are waiting for are inspections and PTO, I'd consider that a 2019 install. When I claimed the deduction for my 2017 taxes, Turbo Tax just asked me how much the system cost.

But the instructions for the referenced form 5695 clearly state:
"Costs. For purposes of the credit, costs are treated as being paid when the original installation of the item is completed. . ."

So the date of milestone payments pursuant to your contract would have no bearing. The only question is when installation was materially completed. From my perspective, once the installer has performed the majority of the work (in your case installing all capital equipment and >95% of labor in 2019) I would consider installation complete in 2019.

Of course I'm not a tax lawyer and I don't offer tax advice.

[Ampster]

If the entire system was installed in 2019, and all you are waiting for are inspections and PTO, I'd consider that a 2019 install.........

I am not a tax guy either but I concur. My system was installed and functioning in late 2017. Because the contract included a new service panel I did not take the credit until 2018. Because of delays with PG&E and some unforeseen details about trenching for a new feed for that service panel, I did not actually get my PTO and pay for the system until March 2019. Interpretations may vary.

[sunpoweredev]

Lastly, a few weeks after PTO you'll hear from GPE for a follow up in person meeting to discuss any lingering questions or concerns and they'll provide you with a spiral bound packet with all your system design, permits, details in one neat package vs the oversize stuff you already have.

I did not know that. All I have is a bunch of PDFs lol. Will from GPE emailed me couple of times to schedule for a visit but I never got back to him. I guess I will schedule that visit now.

[sunpoweredev]

We had lots of bad weather in mid December and it took 1.5 weeks to finally get the panels installed on Dec 18 (rain or snow almost every day). Township inspection is scheduled for tomorrow and once that is done and we get signed permit, we can contact power company (JCPL) to get all metering set up.

The GPE person will be here tomorrow when the inspector shows up. He is suppose to show me how to do everything. Is there anything in particular that I should ask about?

The GPE rep that showed up on the day of inspection performs the inverter configuration. He didn't really show me anything other than seeing him connect to the inverter with his phone which we will not have access to (the Solar Edge Setapp app). After everything is complete there will be another rep to meet with you if you choose to, this is when they'll show you everything. Since all there is on the inverter is 3 lights and a cutoff switch, I didn't bother to schedule for that meeting. But since NJTurtlePower pointed out that you'll be given a nice binder, I will get it scheduled soon.

I'm disappointed that we couldn't get everything done in 2019 as I'm pretty sure I won't get my federal tax credit until filing 2020 taxes in 1 year since we still have to make final payment. Oh well, life goes on, just hoping to get everything hooked up and working soon.

I'm definitely no tax expert here, but if I was in your situation (system installation complete and have already made 90% of the payment) I'd definitely try to get it in the 2019 filing.

[foo1bar]

I'm definitely no tax expert here, but if I was in your situation (system installation complete and have already made 90% of the payment) I'd definitely try to get it in the 2019 filing.

I'm not a tax expert either.
But which year payment was made is not relevant for the tax credit.

The IRS guidance is that the credit is applied to the year that the system was "placed in service"

If the POCO and building inspector signed off before Dec. 31, 2019, IMO that's likely sufficient to convince someone that it was in service in 2019.
Even if those final items weren't done at that point, but everything was hooked up and running, you could probably make the argument that installation had been completed and it had been put into service.