Earth4Energy, Citizenre, and other Misleading Solar Energy Scam Info

[Sunking]

The scam is not about building a $200 panel, it's about realistically expecting it ($200) to supply household power, without a LOT more expenses.

Mike I do not disagree with your assessment, I just have a different opinion of what makes it a SCAM.

First is the information is incomplete, inaccurate, deceptive,and better information can be had for free.

Second it is a Multi-Level Marketing Scheme aka as Pyramid Marketing. It starts with the top dog who wrote the useless information. He then recruits a sales force who are compensated not only for sales they personally generate, but also for the sales of others they recruit, creating a downline of distributors and a hierarchy of multiple levels of compensation. Most of these use Click Blank.

[john p]

Here is the reasons I think it impractical for people to build cheaply and successfully home made solar panels,, Successfully means work well and LAST MANY YEARS.
We were given a batch of a new potting mix the makers claimed was far superior to Sylguard.As we have a very good vacuum pump press and everything else the best of we decided to make a solar panel. We had first grade cells.,in fact they are better than ones you can buy anywhere commercially.
We were given the all clear to do this in work time..
It took two of us 7 hours to complete the panel from start to finish including making the frame of anodised aluminium.
When we added up the cost of materials it came to a bit more than half rhe retail price of a 160w panel. But if you added the time cost it then went way beyond the retail cost of a panel that size.

So how can anyone do it at home without all the equipment successfully and at lower that bought cost.??

[russ]

Earth 4 Energy and that type are no different than the scammers selling penis enlargers and other such junk on the net.

They get some sucker like the fool that posted this note of praise to help them by paying so much per click that his link gets them.

If anyone really believes their stories then there is no hope for that person.

[Krista]

If I am a total noob in this, would they have some beneficial info?

[russ]

Hi and welcome to Solar Panel Talk!

To difficult for the unaware to sort out the garbage from any small amount of useful information.

[johnkimball@sunelec.com]

Thanks Jason

I am relieved to see that someone is really telling it as it is, pure scam, super bad name for the real thing. Total lies. I actually emailed this guy and cursed him out. What a low life piece o...

[BriteLeaf]

Yes, I agree Bob

Preferably someone in a timezone opposite of mine perhaps

Not sure where you are, but I'm in the Central Time Zone

[BriteLeaf]

Yes, I agree Bob

Preferably someone in a timezone opposite of mine perhaps

Scratch my last post. I see that you are in Mountain Time, just 1 hour behind me, and also that post was dated a bit better than 2 years ago lol.

Yes, it is 5:00 am and I haven't been to bed yet lol

I am tired. So sue me lol

[BriteLeaf]

Funny how people are ready to spew out poison and false claims on products they never used.
Earth 4 Energy is an incredible e-book that show step by step videos on how build to a solar panel( this is one solar panel for less than $200).

I recommend this e-book. A few people said the purchased Earth 4 Energy on this post either they did not open it or could not understand the easy step by step instructions. Popular Mechanics and Popular Science featured Earth 4 Energy. These magazines do not feature junk.

If you want to research and spend hours of time putting together the material Earth 4 Energy has put together for you in this e-book. Then yes you could probably after many weeks or months of research find exactly what you need, but like people who started this post has spewed out poison and deception, I would say its hard to trust if your research would be accurate.

I have successfully been a good student of Earth 4 Energy and built my solar panels. I recommend this e-book to anyone who would love the enjoyment of building a solar panel and seeing it work for you. Its easy for anyone to do if you click on the e-book and open it up, or take the long road of researching and proving your research time and time again until you get it right.

Jimmy

I have not bought the eBook, but I CAN tell you that I saw a video on Youtube (for FREE I might add!) taking you step by step on how to build the solar panels out of solar cells.

It inspired me enough that I bought my own Solar Cells and will attempt building my own and pray that it works.

Although the more I get into it, I agree with most of the people on this forum that says that there is NO WAY IN HELL that you will get off the grid for $200.00.

I bought .5 Kw worth of cells, that cost me $210.00. I KNOW I will still have to buy Junction Boxes, an Inverter, Batteries out the wazzoo, and the Charge Controller at the very minimum. Then after I have all of that, I will still need MINIMUM of another 3.5 Kw worth of panels. Assuming I am able to do all of this, I am looking at a total of about $4500.00 MINIMUM from start to finish. Assuming my math is right.

I still plan on doing it, but I will just have to take baby steps and do it a little bit at a time.

[Sunking]

I still plan on doing it, but I will just have to take baby steps and do it a little bit at a time.

Why? You can buy panels cheaper than you can make them. Nice thing is they actually work and comply with electrical codes. Don't be a fool, or you are going to be separated from your money.

[BriteLeaf]

Why? You can buy panels cheaper than you can make them. Nice thing is they actually work and comply with electrical codes. Don't be a fool, or you are going to be separated from your money.

First, my biggest problem is money. My house is paid for as of April of this year, but I am still low (damned near non-existent) income drawing Disability. I have seen 200 watt panels (just 1) going for nearly $400.00. There is no way that I can afford that in 1 chunk. That is why I have to do it a little bit at a time. Also, I am definitely no expert, but I did go to school for Electronics and I understand Ohm's Law. That being said, I believe that I can build the panels. Definitely not as fast, but I still think I can do it.

I may get proven wrong. If so, it is an expensive lesson for me.

No matter what though, it will be a nice experiment.

[john p]

BRITELEAF You have spent $210 on .5 kw of cells ? You will be spending about the same amount again to finish them,, Sylguard,glass,frames rear junction boxes and diodes . Thats $420 x7 times about $3000.. You have no previous experience is tab soldering or sealing out air as you Sylguard,, To do this successfully you need a vacuum bag/pump.. this also takes some practice. I know as an experiment we tried it at work it took two of us just about a full day to completely make one as good as the best commercial panels. But what made it possible we have a very well equipped workshop. Far in advance of 99.999% of any other home panel builder..
You say you have very limited amounts of money but you will be spending about $3000 and no guarantee whatsoever that you will make them successfully.. Then what? You make another batch and try to rectify all the things you did wrong in the first batch? By now you are up to and most likely beyond the price of guaranteed bought ones..
What is the point of all these panels and batteries ?? it certainly is NEVER going to save you money over grid power,cost of replacement batteries every 3 to 6 years will make sure of that. And you cant do a grid tie system as you dont have approved panels.

[BriteLeaf]

You say you have very limited amounts of money but you will be spending about $3000 and no guarantee whatsoever that you will make them successfully.. Then what? You make another batch and try to rectify all the things you did wrong in the first batch?

First of all, I would like to thank you (Really, I do thank you! (I am not trying to sound sarcastic, as I really do appreciate your input) ) for your input and criticism.

I guess I misspoke myself. That does tend to happen from time to time with the written and not spoken word.

Of course if I can't make a good panel on the first try, I won't be able to, nor would I try, to keep pouring money into it. However, since I have gone this far already, I am commited to at least trying it once.

Will I ever be able to go completely off the grid?

I am not deluding myself. I am sure that I won't be able to. That being said, I have a $200.00+ dollar per month electric bill that I would at least like to cut in half.

But still, even if I bought the panels, there will still be the other startup costs to consider. (i.e. the inverter, a few batteries, and the control box at the very least.)

And most likely, after my first attempt, I will more than likely go ahead and buy the already built panels, because as you stated previously, after all is said and done, the cost will be pretty close to the same to buy, vs. build my own. Plus the UL factor, as well as many other factors. Why build it if you can have it built for you at close to the same price?

Of course, I am looking at all of this with hindsight at this time, so it is a learning process for me.

Again, John, I would sincerely like to thank you for your input.

[KRenn]

CitizenRE strikes back!

I see that CitizenRe is back in full force. You've got scores of wannabe-MLM millionaires trolling Craigslist and posting ads about solar but never identifying the installer, the modules or pretty much anything else about the system.

Here is an example of one such "ecopreneur."

http://www.homesolarusa.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=44&Itemid=66

I'd be worried about any company that claims "it may be a year or more before your system is installed.


Oh, and don't worry folks, its not a solar lease, its solar RENT.

[Sunking]

Will I ever be able to go completely off the grid?

I am not deluding myself. I am sure that I won't be able to. That being said, I have a $200.00+ dollar per month electric bill that I would at least like to cut in half.

Briteleaf as a fellow Texan listen to me for a minute. You may not like what I have to say, but it is real and truth. I am not trying to hurt your feelings or be sarcastic, but you need to wake up and look at real numbers. I am a professional engineer who has been designing off-grid battery systems for just over 10 years.

I know where Atlanta Texas is just south of Texarkana near the Arkansas border, you are not far from me in DFW area. I know what you pay for electricity, who your utility is, and climate. If your summer bill is $200 tells me you are using right around 1800 to 2000 Kwh per month or 60 Kwh per day. That is a huge amount of electricity. You are using about 3 times more electricity then the average USA house hold uses. A lot of that has to do with living in TX and are air conditioning bills. This summer has been brutal.

So if you wanted to replace the power company and go off grid would require a NASA budget. You would need a 20,000 watt solar panel array. I do not think your home is even large enough to place that many panels. As for the batteries I will not throw the technical stuff out like voltage or amp hours because I doubt it would mean anything to you, but you will understand 20,000 pounds of lead. You would have to file EPA permits and pass yearly inspections by th elocal fire department because you would be considered a toxic hazardous site which poses a significant risk to the public. In addition you would need to build an addition to your home to hold all the batteries with Spill Containment and fire protection system.

But here is what you really need to know. To go off grid you are looking at $160,000 to $200,000 just for the equipment. That does not include the labor and housing addition, permits, and legal fees. I seriously doubt your home is even worth that much. The fun part is you get to replace that $50,000 battery in about 5 to 6 years. That only includes the cost of the batteries. No labor or disposal fees for all that toxic waste the EPA will require you to track and be liable for.

As for a grid tied system, well the story is a bit better but not much because you live in TX. There are no NET METERING laws where you live. That means the POCO will only give you about 5 or 6 cents per Kwh, and still charge you 10 cents for what you buy. That means you still get a nice electric bill to pay. So here is how it stacks up you would need a 10 to 14 Kw Grid tied system. Since you cannot pay cash, you would need a loan of about $50,000 to $60,000. So if it is a 10 year term @ 6% your monthly loan payment is $560/month, plus about a $50 to $60 month electric bill on top of the loan payment. So you go from paying $200/month for electricity to $600/month.

Those are the numbers neighbor. Make your choice wisely.