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Coming Soon to NJ - 12.35 kW Hanwha DUO-G5 + SolarEdge Inverter/Optimizers by GPE

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  • Originally posted by sunpoweredev View Post
    Your January consumption and production numbers are eerily similar to mine lol. So it looks like you should be billed 332kWh (1016 minus 684), if I'm understanding this correctly. What did you actually get billed for?

    My SREC meter is also off by about 1000kWh compared to the 40 reading on the JCP&L meter. Makes sense I guess, since the SREC meter will record the self-consumed production and the JCP&L meter doesn't. I thought the discrepancy would be bigger than this. My SREC meter is at 56xx, before adding the missing 300kWh from when the first SREC meter went dead, which closely matches up my lifetime production of 5.99MWh per SolarEdge.
    So like I said I had an estimated bill this month, but in checking it was actually pretty close...Billed for 338 kWh. Came to $46.54

    Correct me if I'm wrong, but your SREC meter should be different than the 40-reading on the utility meter since the SREC meter counts ALL solar energy generation while the 40 Output reading is only the excess going to the grid not self-consumed.

    Anyways, February is not looking like much of a pro-solar month in NJ according to the latest weather forecast....

    Untitled.jpg
    12.35 kW - https://pvoutput.org/list.jsp?sid=67749

    Comment


    • What did you end up doing for selling your SREC's? I know previous posts recommended Flett Exchange as GPE did not offer direct deposit. I just received my SREC confirmation emails from the state and GPE so need to decide what I want to do. It looks like GPE uses SRECTrade and they indicate they have direct deposit and fees can be found here. The fees are VERY high at 5% management plus 2% transaction for 7% total fees for systems from 0-50 kW which I would think fits all homes. I'm thinking I'll just create my own account at GATS and just do it myself for $5 via Flett Exchange. Is that what everyone else does? If SREC price is $220 the 7% fee is only around $15 which isn't bad but might as well save myself $10 and do it myself.

      On a side note, I have been surprised how much solar I get on very cloudy/rainy days. I got 7.5 kWh yesterday and it was crappy weather all day long. I was telling my parents that I now get mad on cloudy days as those clouds are costing me money!!

      Update: looks like Flett Exchange also offers SREC Manager option for 3% (currently $6.75 for NJ) for full service or do it yourself transfers for $2.50. Now I'm wondering if I should be lazy and automate for only a few dollars.....
      Last edited by robstrash; 02-06-2020, 10:58 AM.

      Comment


      • Originally posted by robstrash View Post
        What did you end up doing for selling your SREC's? I know previous posts recommended Flett Exchange as GPE did not offer direct deposit. I just received my SREC confirmation emails from the state and GPE so need to decide what I want to do. It looks like GPE uses SRECTrade and they indicate they have direct deposit and fees can be found here. The fees are VERY high at 5% management plus 2% transaction for 7% total fees for systems from 0-50 kW which I would think fits all homes. I'm thinking I'll just create my own account at GATS and just do it myself for $5 via Flett Exchange. Is that what everyone else does? If SREC price is $220 the 7% fee is only around $15 which isn't bad but might as well save myself $10 and do it myself.

        On a side note, I have been surprised how much solar I get on very cloudy/rainy days. I got 7.5 kWh yesterday and it was crappy weather all day long. I was telling my parents that I now get mad on cloudy days as those clouds are costing me money!!

        Update: looks like Flett Exchange also offers SREC Manager option for 3% (currently $6.75 for NJ) for full service or do it yourself transfers for $2.50. Now I'm wondering if I should be lazy and automate for only a few dollars.....
        I've only completed one trade so far in Dec. for my 3 SRECS through GATS and NJSREC. Pricing is updated weekly and varies by volume. http://www.njsrec.com/

        No direct deposit option, but also ZERO fees. Prices dropped a bit towards the end of the year when I sold at $216 each. I received a check in the mail within a week for $648.

        Directions are pretty easy and listed here: http://www.njsrec.com/node/2

        Easy enough not to lose any money in fees IMO, plus I figure I'll likely only sell about quarterly, so no big effort.

        Yeah your system is doing well...beat me yesterday (7.43 kW) with about 25% smaller system. True South orientation is king in the solar game....I need that summer early sun to take advantage of my 3.9 kW Eastern facing array.
        12.35 kW - https://pvoutput.org/list.jsp?sid=67749

        Comment


        • Originally posted by robstrash View Post
          What did you end up doing for selling your SREC's? I know previous posts recommended Flett Exchange as GPE did not offer direct deposit. I just received my SREC confirmation emails from the state and GPE so need to decide what I want to do. It looks like GPE uses SRECTrade and they indicate they have direct deposit and fees can be found here. The fees are VERY high at 5% management plus 2% transaction for 7% total fees for systems from 0-50 kW which I would think fits all homes. I'm thinking I'll just create my own account at GATS and just do it myself for $5 via Flett Exchange. Is that what everyone else does? If SREC price is $220 the 7% fee is only around $15 which isn't bad but might as well save myself $10 and do it myself.

          On a side note, I have been surprised how much solar I get on very cloudy/rainy days. I got 7.5 kWh yesterday and it was crappy weather all day long. I was telling my parents that I now get mad on cloudy days as those clouds are costing me money!!

          Update: looks like Flett Exchange also offers SREC Manager option for 3% (currently $6.75 for NJ) for full service or do it yourself transfers for $2.50. Now I'm wondering if I should be lazy and automate for only a few dollars.....
          I tried Flett and NJSREC. I ended up sticking with NJSREC, more money and the physical check comes within 2 days. I just take a snapshot with my bank's mobile app when I get it in the mail to deposit it.
          https://pvoutput.org/list.jsp?userid=59404

          Comment


          • Originally posted by robstrash
            On a side note, I have been surprised how much solar I get on very cloudy/rainy
            days. I got 7.5 kWh yesterday and it was crappy weather all day long. I was telling my parents that I
            now get mad on cloudy days as those clouds are costing me money!!.
            No one selling solar talks about how much more expensive each KWH is in cloudy areas. Even
            saw one say panels still work under clouds, putting out 90%. Should have said 90% LESS. And
            then for us far from the equator, there is the problem of snow.

            Getting mad does no good, making changes does. I got my inverter plant delivering about the
            same annual output as those in the SW desert, with 10 hour solar days when the sun is good,
            and doubled output when it is not. Bruce Roe

            Comment


            • Originally posted by bcroe View Post

              No one selling solar talks about how much more expensive each KWH is in cloudy areas. Even
              saw one say panels still work under clouds, putting out 90%. Should have said 90% LESS. And
              then for us far from the equator, there is the problem of snow.

              Getting mad does no good, making changes does. I got my inverter plant delivering about the
              same annual output as those in the SW desert, with 10 hour solar days when the sun is good,
              and doubled output when it is not. Bruce Roe
              Bruce: What's a good ballpark/ave. for your annual output per installed STC kW ?

              Comment


              • Originally posted by J.P.M.
                Bruce: What's a good ballpark/ave. for your annual output per installed STC kW ?
                For a couple of years have done 29,000 KWH from 15KW of inverters at some 96% efficient. To do that under
                these clouds the DC:AC ratio is 2.33. Bruce Roe

                Comment


                • Originally posted by robstrash View Post
                  What did you end up doing for selling your SREC's?
                  In case you missed my response...

                  See post #333 above which was stuck in moderation for a while due to the simple links I listed.

                  12.35 kW - https://pvoutput.org/list.jsp?sid=67749

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by bcroe View Post

                    For a couple of years have done 29,000 KWH from 15KW of inverters at some 96% efficient.
                    That high DC to AC ratio works together with the orientation of the panels economically. That is a capacity factor of almost 2000. Better than I am getting in California.(1200 to 1400)

                    I am not sure "capacity factor" is the correct term for the relationship between installed capacity in kW and actual or predicted annual output in kWhrs.
                    Last edited by Ampster; 02-08-2020, 11:44 AM.

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by NJturtlePower View Post

                      So like I said I had an estimated bill this month, but in checking it was actually pretty close...Billed for 338 kWh. Came to $46.54

                      Correct me if I'm wrong, but your SREC meter should be different than the 40-reading on the utility meter since the SREC meter counts ALL solar energy generation while the 40 Output reading is only the excess going to the grid not self-consumed.

                      Anyways, February is not looking like much of a pro-solar month in NJ according to the latest weather forecast....

                      Untitled.jpg
                      I think I figured out the discrepancy. My November billing was an estimate. They put 250kWh in the bank which shouldn't have been there. The two subsequent readings were actual and it finally caught up.

                      Can't argue with mother nature, but I am quite thankful that this winter has been quite mild. All this rain we've had could easily have been snow.

                      Originally posted by robstrash View Post
                      What did you end up doing for selling your SREC's? I know previous posts recommended Flett Exchange as GPE did not offer direct deposit. I just received my SREC confirmation emails from the state and GPE so need to decide what I want to do. It looks like GPE uses SRECTrade and they indicate they have direct deposit and fees can be found here. The fees are VERY high at 5% management plus 2% transaction for 7% total fees for systems from 0-50 kW which I would think fits all homes. I'm thinking I'll just create my own account at GATS and just do it myself for $5 via Flett Exchange. Is that what everyone else does? If SREC price is $220 the 7% fee is only around $15 which isn't bad but might as well save myself $10 and do it myself.

                      On a side note, I have been surprised how much solar I get on very cloudy/rainy days. I got 7.5 kWh yesterday and it was crappy weather all day long. I was telling my parents that I now get mad on cloudy days as those clouds are costing me money!!

                      Update: looks like Flett Exchange also offers SREC Manager option for 3% (currently $6.75 for NJ) for full service or do it yourself transfers for $2.50. Now I'm wondering if I should be lazy and automate for only a few dollars.....
                      Not that I was interested, but I asked GPE when I initially got all my SREC related stuff approved and was informed that they no longer handle SREC trades. I too used NJSREC. "No fees" from NJSREC, but they give you a lower dollar figure which still works out to be the cheapest of them all. I don't remember which, but one of the recommended services from GPE they want complete control of your system (they take control of your PJM-EIS account). No thanks. Very easy with NJSREC. You don't even have to create an account with them. You just transfer your SREC certificates from PJM-EIS GATS to them and you will receive a check in the mail in a few days. I will be doing that again soon as I've just accumulated another 3 certificates

                      Same, when my system was first up and running, I was pleasantly surprised how much power it makes even on a fully cloudy day.
                      https://pvoutput.org/list.jsp?sid=69875

                      Comment


                      • With the way the month is going so far and forecasted in NJ, having doubts will even get to half of the total I generated in January and perhaps just one third of what PVWatts gave as estimate for Feb! Hope the later months makes up for some of this

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by njdealguy View Post
                          With the way the month is going so far and forecasted in NJ, having doubts will even get to half of the total I generated in January and perhaps just one third of what PVWatts gave as estimate for Feb! Hope the later months makes up for some of this
                          The weather is changing so I expect a lot of people will have less production from their pv systems then what they got in the past. I also think that pvwatts will need to update their data base to be closer to the new reality that we should expect more clouds and less solar production.

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by bcroe View Post

                            For a couple of years have done 29,000 KWH from 15KW of inverters at some 96% efficient. To do that under
                            these clouds the DC:AC ratio is 2.33. Bruce Roe
                            Bruce: Thank you.

                            I'm sorry my question was not stated well. My question was not how many kW if inverter capacity you have installed. My question was: How many STC kW of solar panels do you have installed ?

                            What are your array orientations and panel STC array sizes and what are the corresponding array sizes as f(array orientations) ?

                            Other considerations aside (but not forgotten) for a moment, usually, the most cost effective grid tie designs are ones that have the greatest POA irradiance on them over the course of a year. That goal is most often met by a single optimal orientation, particularly when there is flexibility in orientation as is often the case with ground mounts.

                            Multiple array orientations do not meet that criteria. The integrated POA irradiance will always be less for a multiple orientation system than a system optimized for greatest annual POA irradiance. As a result, more orientations for a system require more panel area for the same performance as a single optimal orientation.

                            As for larger arrays producing more electricity under cloudy skies, it's still not cost effective. Production under clouds is better thought of as a nice surprise.

                            System cost effectiveness is affected by the site clearness index, lower clearness index, lower cost effectiveness and longer paybacks. Best anecdotal evidence I've seen to folk's awareness of that is when recently circling two airports, Chicago, and San Diego, and noticing all the array on roofs in one area and finding a lot fewer arrays on roofs in the other.

                            I appreciate what you've done and continue to do, but don't kid yourself. Systems with multiple orientations are seldom more efficient or more cost effective than systems that use one optimum orientation.

                            Respectfully,

                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by J.P.M. View Post

                              Bruce..............
                              I appreciate what you've done and continue to do, but don't kid yourself. Systems with multiple orientations are seldom more efficient or more cost effective than systems that use one optimum orientation.
                              It is pretty obvious there is a lot of difference between the weather in snowy cloudy Illinois and the deserts of California. Therefore it is no surprise optimal systems might be designed differently. More importantly the goals and cost structures, as well as the cost of the land and capital are different as well.

                              Let me offer another opinion, not to say that you are wrong, but simply to point out that there are often several viewpoints and opinions about a subject. Tha classic south facing array is a no brainer. The value of forums like these, is the various opinions offered by people with different perspectives. That way the viewers and lurkers can form their own conclusions, whether they are in the Midwest or the Desert, or they have East-West facing roof faces.

                              The thing that I admire about Bruce's system is that it annually generates almost 2000 times the AC capacity of his inverters. I have yet to see a solar farm in the desert that rivals that. That is a reason system designers should be flexible and consider site specifics in their designs.
                              Last edited by Ampster; 02-08-2020, 07:58 PM.

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by J.P.M.
                                Bruce: Thank you.
                                I'm sorry my question was not stated well. My question was not how many kW if inverter capacity you have
                                installed. My question was: How many STC kW of solar panels do you have installed ?

                                What are your array orientations and panel STC array sizes and what are the corresponding array sizes
                                as f(array orientations) ?

                                Other considerations aside (but not forgotten) for a moment, usually, the most cost effective grid tie designs
                                are ones that have the greatest POA irradiance on them over the course of a year. That goal is most often
                                met by a single optimal orientation, particularly when there is flexibility in orientation as is often the case
                                with ground mounts.

                                Multiple array orientations do not meet that criteria. The integrated POA irradiance will always be less for a
                                multiple orientation system than a system optimized for greatest annual POA irradiance. As a result, more
                                orientations for a system require more panel area for the same performance as a single optimal orientation.

                                As for larger arrays producing more electricity under cloudy skies, it's still not cost effective. Production under
                                clouds is better thought of as a nice surprise.

                                System cost effectiveness is affected by the site clearness index, lower clearness index, lower cost effectiveness
                                and longer paybacks. Best anecdotal evidence I've seen to folk's awareness of that is when recently circling two
                                airports, Chicago, and San Diego, and noticing all the array on roofs in one area and finding a lot fewer arrays
                                on roofs in the other.

                                I appreciate what you've done and continue to do, but don't kid yourself. Systems with multiple orientations
                                are seldom more efficient or more cost effective than systems that use one optimum orientation.
                                Respectfully,
                                No doubt a lot more panels can be seen in southern CA than in cloudy Chicago, where we
                                can buy all the KWH we want for $0.116 with tax and transmission, no tiers or times.

                                I would pretty much agree, except the surprise of energy under clouds. I contend that
                                it is entirely dependent on HOW cloudy it is. You might say that it is inefficient to even
                                build PV solar in areas with frequent snowfall and a lot of clouding. I have made that
                                argument at many zoning meetings, where carpet baggers want to make a quick profit
                                and leave a lot of white elephants here on our prime farm land. However my 5 acres
                                are not suitable for farming, and I can afford to run my latest science experiment to see
                                if it can be made to work. Lately the experiment seems to be closer to the end than
                                the beginning, with my list of goals being met. Someday someone may figure just how
                                inefficient it may be.

                                The original STC rating of the panels here is the AC inverter rating (15KW) multiplied
                                by the DC:AC ratio (2.33). After much of a decade they may have slipped a bit. The
                                annual AC output is taken from the inverters total to date I recorded, on anniversary
                                dates. The actual DC collected would be more like 30,500 KWH before inverter and
                                DC wiring losses. Here are 4 different panel alignments, some subject to semi annual
                                adjustment. I do not have them precisely recorded, clearly most are not in what I now
                                consider optimum position. Bruce Roe
                                Last edited by bcroe; 02-08-2020, 03:49 AM.

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