A year of solar: Starting to look like a bad choice

[ButchDeal]

That datasheet for the new Solaredge inverters must not have been updated properly if WI-FI can be used for communications. It doesn't really matter for me as I have the original HD-Wave inverters.

they likely will update it when they release the feature. It was announced at some of the conferences.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XSPZbkbu6_o

[reader2580]

I talked to my utility today and they reconfirmed I get the full retail rate for excess generation either by bill credit or if paid out by check. I talked to the guy who handles all solar stuff and not somebody in customer service.

He is starting the process to convert me over to bill credits instead of a monthly check for any excess.

[ButchDeal]

I talked to my utility today and they reconfirmed I get the full retail rate for excess generation either by bill credit or if paid out by check. I talked to the guy who handles all solar stuff and not somebody in customer service.

He is starting the process to convert me over to bill credits instead of a monthly check for any excess.

Does this include all kwh based fees (not flat fees), like generation, transmission etc?

This is the minority by far and you should consider yourself lucky. very few people are in your situation. Many in fact get ZERO for any Excess generation.

That said I would still highly check your inverter for production and review your bill, it sounds like you have some flat "unavoidable" fees.

From a previouse post of yours you mentioned that they pay you $0.41 MORE than retail for solar power. Do you have dual meter? meaning that ALL power is sent to the grid and all consumption comes from the grid instead of a single meter system? Usually when the utility pays more for power than the customer pays, they do a dual meter system, sending all power to the grid.

[J.P.M.]

I talked to my utility today and they reconfirmed I get the full retail rate for excess generation either by bill credit or if paid out by check. I talked to the guy who handles all solar stuff and not somebody in customer service.

He is starting the process to convert me over to bill credits instead of a monthly check for any excess.

So do you get a choice of the ~ $0.12/kWh cash for generation carryover from the prior billing period, or do you get a carryover at retail rate billing period per billing period against future use ?

Then, at the end of the relevant year of what I'm assuming are 12 billing periods, what rate do they pay for the total net excess generation over the prior 12 billing periods ?

Maybe I'm wrong, but I'd guess you get the full retail rate in carryover month to month and a (much) lower excess generation rate at trueup.

As Butch writes, if you have full retail rate for excess generation at trueup, you do indeed have a sweet deal that is truly rare. I'd see if I could find that in writing somewhere. If so, congrads. Also if so, is there any limit on residential solar PV size ?

[solarix]

Not saying this is the case with you, but it is common with some of our new customers to see unexpectedly high utility bills after installing solar. We always go out and confirm the system is operating properly but the cause always comes down to the customer having increasing their usage. The mindset is usually "I have solar now, I can use as much electricity as I want". Because the utility only measures excess generation, the extra power the house is using is not measured, and it is not easy sometimes to convince people that the problem is their increased consumption.

[J.P.M.]

Not saying this is the case with you, but it is common with some of our new customers to see unexpectedly high utility bills after installing solar. We always go out and confirm the system is operating properly but the cause always comes down to the customer having increasing their usage. The mindset is usually "I have solar now, I can use as much electricity as I want". Because the utility only measures excess generation, the extra power the house is using is not measured, and it is not easy sometimes to convince people that the problem is their increased consumption.

FWIW, the neighbors who allow me to keep an eye on their systems and usage see somewhere between about 10% - 20% more usage after install, but that's only about a dozen systems and not extensive monitoring beyond reading the meters ~ 1X/month or so.

[reader2580]

BTW - 9.4kw is a bigger array - that's 32 of 295W modules or more if they're smaller wattage. Is that what you have?

I have 21 300W modules hooked to a 6000W Solaredge inverter on the roof of my detached garage. I have another 12 265W panels hooked to a 3000W Solaredge inverter on a ground mount directly behind my garage. The two inverters are right next to each other on the outside wall of the garage. The solar installer I used has a machine shop custom build the dual inverter mount for him.

[reader2580]

So do you get a choice of the ~ $0.12/kWh cash for generation carryover from the prior billing period, or do you get a carryover at retail rate billing period per billing period against future use ?

Then, at the end of the relevant year of what I'm assuming are 12 billing periods, what rate do they pay for the total net excess generation over the prior 12 billing periods ?

Maybe I'm wrong, but I'd guess you get the full retail rate in carryover month to month and a (much) lower excess generation rate at trueup.

As Butch writes, if you have full retail rate for excess generation at trueup, you do indeed have a sweet deal that is truly rare. I'd see if I could find that in writing somewhere. If so, congrads. Also if so, is there any limit on residential solar PV size ?

I pay $13.50 basic service charge plus a $6.58 grid access fee for having solar. There was going to be a meter fee, but they installed smart meters so no need for a bidirectional meter. I was the very first customer in my area to get a smart meter as they didn't want to install a bi-directional meter and then come back a month or two later and install a smart meter.

The buy back rate is 4 tenths of a cent higher than what I pay for power used, not 41 cents higher. No idea why the two are not the same. There is a 40,000 watt limit for residential solar I recall.

Carry forward or a monthly check they still pay out the same. Here is my bill from last spring where I actually got a credit instead of had to pay.

powerbill.JPG
That $42.83 is actually a credit. Don't ask me why it doesn't have a CR next to it.

[reader2580]

I only have one meter. My smart meter switches between showing power purchased from the utility and power sent to the utility. The display also has two arrows on the bottom that show if I sending power to the utility or buying power from the utility. They also blink faster or slower based on how much power is being purchased on consumed. I am pretty sure every house has the same meter with the meter being programmed to allow

The solar coordinator (among other job function) for the utility told me on Friday they only have have 140 solar customers. He recognized my name when I called because the list is so short. There are 130,000 customers so only a tenth of a percent have solar. Solar is a higher percent for Xcel Energy because there are two state incentive plans that don't apply to CO-OP customers.

I wasn't able to get the ethernet cable run today as my garage door is still frozen shut. I thought the 38 degrees today would free it up.

[CodeeCB]

Full retail for net metering is net metering but excess generation is different and most utilities in MN pay wholesale for excess generaton.

My utility in MN pays $.128 year round, I pay them $.118 in the winter months and $.123 in the summer months. They send me a check every month aside from December I owed $56. Some of the summer months they are sending me xbecks for $300+. My solar investment iabwoekiis out well and helping out the environment as well!

[reader2580]

My utility in MN pays $.128 year round, I pay them $.118 in the winter months and $.123 in the summer months. They send me a check every month aside from December I owed $56. Some of the summer months they are sending me xbecks for $300+. My solar investment iabwoekiis out well and helping out the environment as well!

You must have one seriously huge system if you're getting $300 a month back after accounting for your own usage. If I was able to produce 9 KWh for 12 hours every day for a month and used no power at all I could get about $375 back. However, the chances of that kind of production are slim to none plus I do use power.

[CodeeCB]

Wow there was a bunch of typos when I used my phone...that doesn't happen on email, text etc on my phone that is odd. Anyways I have a 20.16 KW system with 62 panels. I have both Sense as well as eGauge for per circuit monitoring and have a very good idea of my power usage over the past few years. Last year I used 16,160 kWh of electricity according to Sense and generated 16,499 kWh of Solar (system turned on at the end of April). The sense solar module got and eGauge got installed few days after my system came online but it should be close.

Usage FY18 in Sense = 16,160 kWh (consumption monitoring has been active the last few years)

Solar production FY18 (system turned on end of April)
Sense = 16,499 kWh
Solar Edge Inverters = System Production: 17.63 MWh
eGauge = 16,845 kWh

On a month to month basis both Sense and eGauge are within a few percentage points of each other as well as the revenue grade production meter that was installed at the same time. The Solaredge inverters appear to over report a little bit.

Since install production meter outside says 18,292 kWh. eGauge says 17,668 kWh, Sense says 17,613 kWh and Solaredge says 22.22 MWh.

December was by far the worst month, at 490 kWh but I was surprised it did even that since we had around 6" of snow followed by freezing rain and it still melted off pretty quickly. January was 1,087 kWh. Spring and summer I have 2500-3000 kWh of generation some months and I can make 150 kWh a day with clear skies and cool temps. I use 30-40 kWh a day without factoring in the heatpump for heating/cooling. I planned for over production, I have a "Contract for cogeneration and small power production facilities" and I had the option of selecting one of the following

-Average retail cooperative energy rate
-Simultaneous purchase and sale billing rate
-Roll-over credits

I selected the first option, and if rates go up the rates they pay me will go up as well. I receive a check within 15 days each billing date. If I didn't live somewhere that had this sort of net-metering policy in place I may have purchased a smaller system or added some batteries as well. *on my first post I mixed up the .128 and .123 for summer electricity costs and purchase rates.

[CodeeCB]

I pay $13.50 basic service charge plus a $6.58 grid access fee for having solar. There was going to be a meter fee, but they installed smart meters so no need for a bidirectional meter. I was the very first customer in my area to get a smart meter as they didn't want to install a bi-directional meter and then come back a month or two later and install a smart meter.

The buy back rate is 4 tenths of a cent higher than what I pay for power used, not 41 cents higher. No idea why the two are not the same. There is a 40,000 watt limit for residential solar I recall.

Carry forward or a monthly check they still pay out the same. Here is my bill from last spring where I actually got a credit instead of had to pay.

powerbill.JPG
That $42.83 is actually a credit. Don't ask me why it doesn't have a CR next to it.

Looks like we both have Connexus Energy - I have been very impressed with them - they approved the system design in 1 day and came out in under a week of installation to sign off on it and install the bi-directional meter. The City was also extremely fast on their inspection/permits and approved a variance to the 3' clearance between the panels and roof edge no problem. Were you by chance at the focus group at Connexus a few months back?

Capture.PNG

[reader2580]

Looks like we both have Connexus Energy - I have been very impressed with them - they approved the system design in 1 day and came out in under a week of installation to sign off on it and install the bi-directional meter. The City was also extremely fast on their inspection/permits and approved a variance to the 3' clearance between the panels and roof edge no problem. Were you by chance at the focus group at Connexus a few months back?

No, I wasn't at any focus group. The engineer from Connexus came out to approve the rooftop system at the same time the electrical inspector was at my house. I had my smart meter two days later so I could turn the system on. The ground mount portion of my system wasn't finished until October or November. (Rooftop was finished in January.) Connexus still hasn't come out to approve my ground mount, but both inverters were already installed in January. I've been running the ground mount since the electrical inspection was approved.

I have a rooftop system on a detached garage. The city gave me approval to go all the way to the edges all around. The fire chief told me they don't normally vent detached garage fires so they don't need a walkway. Connexus never asked about this that I recall.

[J.P.M.]

My utility in MN pays $.128 year round, I pay them $.118 in the winter months and $.123 in the summer months. They send me a check every month aside from December I owed $56. Some of the summer months they are sending me xbecks for $300+. My solar investment iabwoekiis out well and helping out the environment as well!

For all you people in MN: Why the big secret about not revealing who you buy your power from ? I don't doubt your veracity, but please understand that while possible in what seem to be very rare instances, full retail reimbursement for overgeneration is a rarity.

Apparently Excel is one big provider with several coops providing more power. CenterPoint and Connexus appear to be two coops in/around Ham Lake, neither one mentioning much of anything about NEM or grid tied residential PV. Any sites you can point to that I've missed that can enlighten me about NEM possibilities in MN ?