A year of solar: Starting to look like a bad choice

[reader2580]

I am now just over a year since my solar was finally connected to the grid. I spent somewhere just over $10,000 after federal credits on my project. It is starting to look like a bad choice to go solar. One of my goals was to pay zero in electric costs with an array around 9,400 watts pointed only 20 degrees off of solar south and no shade. I still haven't hooked my Solaredge inverters to my network so I have no idea how much power I actually produced. My electric meter says I fed back 4128 KWh, but that doesn't account for electricity I used when solar was producing.

My total usage the year before solar was about 4,750 KWh at a cost of $744. I paid $416 in my first year of solar which includes a $6.58 grid access fee. Essentially I saved $328. That means I am on track for a 30+ year payback. I know rates might go up, but I will likely need to spend $2,000 or more for inverters over 30 years. My first two months I got money back, but I have paid in since then.

I am starting to think that spending $10,000 on solar was a bad choice. (Yes, I have verified the solar is actually working by looking at the inverters at least once a week.)

[ButchDeal]

My first two months I got money back, but I have paid in since then.

Why did you get money back? you should let it ride through the year as credits for the next few months.

If you are concerned about needing to replace the inverters, then get the extended warranty ASAP to resolve that concern for yourself.

I would get the monitoring ASAP though. you averaged 4.75kMWh annually before solar and utility tells you that you fee in 4.1MWH with solar. How much self consumption did you have?
How much did your consumption increase?

[reader2580]

I guess I choose a monthly check because I thought it would be nice to possibly get a check every month instead of waiting until end of a year. I had this fantasy solar would cover my total bill, but obviously I was wrong. I have been meaning to see if I can change over to the credit system instead although it really doesn't matter since I have paid the utility money every month for the past ten months.

I expect that by 30 years the inverters will probably need replacement. Not too many electronics mounted outdoors would be expected to last more than 30 years. I'm not sure they will fail before 20 years are up though.

I haven't the slightest idea how much self consumption I had. Yes, I need to get Ethernet out to the inverters, but it won't happen until April or May when it warms up enough to run the cable. If Solaredge had WI-FI they would be hooked up already. I spent quite a bit of time just getting my network extended out to my garage due to equipment problems. (Rock solid now.)

[ButchDeal]

I guess I choose a monthly check because I thought it would be nice to possibly get a check every month instead of waiting until end of a year. I had this fantasy solar would cover my total bill, but obviously I was wrong. I have been meaning to see if I can change over to the credit system instead although it really doesn't matter since I have paid the utility money every month for the past ten months.

Well it deffinitly does matter. If you get paid out, they pay you out at wholesale rate which is about 1/3 the retail rate. If you carry it forward you are getting credit for full retail value.
Generally Solar and in your case from your figures as well, is configured for an ANNUAL zero out. That means summer over production goes towards winter under production... but you are shorting that out by taking 1/3 of the summer credits.

I expect that by 30 years the inverters will probably need replacement. Not too many electronics mounted outdoors would be expected to last more than 30 years. I'm not sure they will fail before 20 years are up though.

Then extend the warranty to 25 years...

I haven't the slightest idea how much self consumption I had. Yes, I need to get Ethernet out to the inverters, but it won't happen until April or May when it warms up enough to run the cable. If Solaredge had WI-FI they would be hooked up already. I spent quite a bit of time just getting my network extended out to my garage due to equipment problems. (Rock solid now.)

The new inverters are going to have an option for wifi (really built in with just need for an antenna ) but that doesn't help you.
You could run a temporary cable out there now and get it squared away later. Almost every install we had, the customers increased their consumption after installing...

[reader2580]

Well it deffinitly does matter. If you get paid out, they pay you out at wholesale rate which is about 1/3 the retail rate. If you carry it forward you are getting credit for full retail value.
Generally Solar and in your case from your figures as well, is configured for an ANNUAL zero out. That means summer over production goes towards winter under production... but you are shorting that out by taking 1/3 of the summer credits.

How do you know what electric utility I have and what their policy is on paying for net metered solar is? I get paid the full retail rate no matter when I get a check.

[ButchDeal]

How do you know what electric utility I have and what their policy is on paying for net metered solar is? I get paid the full retail rate no matter when I get a check.

Are you sure about that?!?

There are VERY few utilities that EVERY pay full retail rate in cash for Excess generation.
Almost all pay either Wholesale or nothing for EXCESS generation which is what we are talking about here.

[foo1bar]

I am now just over a year since my solar was finally connected to the grid. I spent somewhere just over $10,000 after federal credits on my project. It is starting to look like a bad choice to go solar. One of my goals was to pay zero in electric costs with an array around 9,400 watts pointed only 20 degrees off of solar south and no shade.

You spent ~$1.52/watt? ($10000/.7/9400W) = $1.52/Watt
What is your utility rate and where are you located?
At $1.52/watt and pointed pretty close to south I would expect payback to be less than 10 years.

Also - that price would be pretty low. Was this a DIY install? Are you sure everything is hooked up correctly? Any major shade issues?

If it were me, I'd run an ethernet cable out to the inverter and hook it up to get the data and see just how much was produced.
BTW - 9.4kw is a bigger array - that's 32 of 295W modules or more if they're smaller wattage. Is that what you have?

[reader2580]

A friend of mine who is an electrician for a solar company did the install as a side job. He is a well respected solar installer. The only part I ended up doing was digging a trench. It was going to be a DIY project, but the local electrical inspector won't allow homeowners to do their own solar. I talked to the state and they said he couldn't stop me, but I didn't want to ruin my relationship with the inspector.

I am in Ham Lake, MN. The electric rate is 11.89 cents and they buy back power from me at 12.3 cents.

[reader2580]

Are you sure about that?!?

There are VERY few utilities that EVERY pay full retail rate in cash for Excess generation.
Almost all pay either Wholesale or nothing for EXCESS generation which is what we are talking about here.

Yes, positive. I just went back and looked at my bills again. I talked to the power company before starting my solar project several times and they confirmed they pay full retail rate for excess generation.

Minnesota still has full retail net metering as law.

[ButchDeal]

Yes, positive. I just went back and looked at my bills again. I talked to the power company before starting my solar project several times and they confirmed they pay full retail rate for excess generation.

Minnesota still has full retail net metering as law.

Full retail for net metering is net metering but excess generation is different and most utilities in MN pay wholesale for excess generaton.

[cebury]

Sorry but I am still trying to wrap my head around you spending $10k trying to eliminate a $744 annual solar bill. You did this full knowledge ahead of time and are apparently upset at the "magic" of solar not paying off fast? As Butch is saying, you'd have a rare case to have a utility pay full retail for excess above net usage. But if they do, you are going to need to manually read monthly net generation numbers off your inverter or get that network going in order to help trouble shoot further.

[reader2580]

Sorry but I am still trying to wrap my head around you spending $10k trying to eliminate a $744 annual solar bill. You did this full knowledge ahead of time and are apparently upset at the "magic" of solar not paying off fast? As Butch is saying, you'd have a rare case to have a utility pay full retail for excess above net usage. But if they do, you are going to need to manually read monthly net generation numbers off your inverter or get that network going in order to help trouble shoot further.

I expected a 10 to 15 year payoff, not 30+ years. 30+ years essentially means no payoff ever as panels will be degrading by then and parts will be starting to fail.

I didn't plan on getting any money back from the utility. I just want to end up with zero power cost for the year.

[reader2580]

The new inverters are going to have an option for wifi (really built in with just need for an antenna ) but that doesn't help you.
You could run a temporary cable out there now and get it squared away later. Almost every install we had, the customers increased their consumption after installing...

Solaredge has new HD-Wave inverters with WI-FI for what they call "SetApp". The datasheet says the Wi-Fi is for initial setup, and WI-FI is not listed as a communications option. It could be the datasheet was not update properly.

I never thought about just running the Ethernet cable under the garage door and around to the inverter. I can probably do that this weekend if I can get to the WI-FI bridge in my garage with all the power equipment in the way.

[ButchDeal]

Solaredge has new HD-Wave inverters with WI-FI for what they call "SetApp". The datasheet says the Wi-Fi is for initial setup, and WI-FI is not listed as a communications option. It could be the datasheet was not update properly.

I never thought about just running the Ethernet cable under the garage door and around to the inverter. I can probably do that this weekend if I can get to the WI-FI bridge in my garage with all the power equipment in the way.

Wifi is built in and only needs an antenna which is a future option.

I would definitely connect this thing and make sure you are getting the generation you expect as well as check all the PV modules for good production. With your concerns over ROI, I am really surprised you haven't done it already.

https://www.solaredge.com/sites/default/files/solaredge-setapp-faqs-eng.pdf

[reader2580]

That datasheet for the new Solaredge inverters must not have been updated properly if WI-FI can be used for communications. It doesn't really matter for me as I have the original HD-Wave inverters.