Tweet
For those that have installed the Q Cells are you happy with your choice? I am deciding between Hanwha Q Cells or going to Panasonic or LG panels. The panel cost jumps significantly from Q Cells to the other two.
-
-
Hi Cleanblue,
Wise folks (not me) here have said that solar is a commodity. Don't buy a Mercedes when a Ford will do. Unless you need super high efficiency panels to get the STC DC kW you need on a smaller roof, there is no need to buy super high end panels. That said, I have the Panasonic 330W myself. But I needed every inch of my roof to get the 12.2kW I needed (actually I was hoping for more). I chose them over the LG Neon2's at the time (NeonR was not out yet). Keep in mind, a generic panel is roughly $0.50/W, Mid to upper mid tier is ~$0.60-0.90W. My Panasonics were ~$1.00/W, LG NeonR is pushing ~$1.20/W, and SunPower panels are up in the $1.50-1.75/W range for the panel alone. Fully installed, depending on your location you're looking at ~$2.75-3.25 per Watt all in before tax credits.
Hanwha makes a fine panel. As does Trina, Jinko, Candian Solar, and perhaps Solar World. SunPower panels are the cream of the crop, but you'll pay a pretty penny for bragging rights. Either way don't buy them direct. Work with a reputable local installer with a long (~10yrs) track record in the business. There are lots of cheap no-name Chinese panels, I would steer clear of these.
Personally, I prefer SolarEdge, but Enphase may be good too -- though they come out with too many new models every year for my preference and historically Enphase has had some reliability issues with some of their early Micros. Do not but SunPower AC modules, they have had lots of issues with their Micros recently.
Check out Energy Sage dot come, and read "Solar Power Your Home For Dummies" (I think that;s the right book).
How many MWh per year do you consume? How many are you hoping to make? What state do you live in? How many years are you planning to live in your home? How much do you pay per kWh? In most states, it can take up to a decade to break even.
-
Thank you for the detailed response. I am in CA and looking to get achieve 13kW system. You still are short power with your 12.2kW system? I have heard everything from 9kW-14kW from different installers.Last edited by cleanblue; 08-04-2018, 10:03 PM.Comment
-
Hanwha is another Chi-Com POS company. Chi-Coms manipulate their currency to cheat the world out of money. That is why there is a trade war starting up with Chi-Coms. Hanwha has been in trouble since the company started. So bad it had to change its name twice and its stock has been delisted and gone back to Chi-Com government ownership. They cheated and cooked the books to the point the company stock became worthless and not worth the paper it is printed on.
So they are great panels until you need warranty claims. So ask yourself this: Which companies have been around a long time, good reputations and likely be around tomorrow if you need them for warranty? Is you answer Panasonic, LG or POS Chi-Com Hanwha?
They use to be called Solar Fun and in 2008 stock price peaked at $189/share. Today if you had 8 of those shares valued at $1512 is now one share of stock worth $1.13/share a loss of 99.925% only a true socialist democrat would like. Perfect for Millinneals.Last edited by Sunking; 08-04-2018, 02:41 PM.MSEE, PEComment
-
Buy an extra panel or two if warranty is a concern. The extra panels will still probably be cheaper than LG or Panasonic panels.Comment
-
Well, the Hanwha Q-Cell Panels are PERC and were invented in Germany and have been tested numerous times by the Fraunhofer Institute for Solar Energy Systems ISE. While the company may (or may not) be run poorly, I still stand by my statement that it is one of the top tier Chinese vendors and one of the largest panel producers in the world -- politics and dumping aside.
But if space on your roof is not a concern, you can probably get LG Neon2 for about the same price as Hanwha, Trina, or Jinko. If you need super high efficiency to meet your target, then NeonR, Panasonic, or SunPower are your only choices.
CleanBlue, what is your annual consumption in terms of kWh? You can model the expected productivity of your future PV array using numerous tools. I prefer Solar Edge Site Designer. It's free, just enter your contact info (no one will call you). Aside from location, roof pitch, and orientation, keep in mind local factors like cloudiness, shade, smog, fog, salt spray. and forest fires. I have numerous trees and get a lot of shade throughout the day. Also my roof, though 175 degrees south is only 20 degree pitch which hurts me most of the year (except Spring/early Summer). I have a colleague which lives fairly close to me (~25miles away) in NJ. His array is ~33% smaller than mine but he has no shade and a better pitch. His array is currently beating mine just slightly in terms of annual MWh. We each get ~12-14MWh/yr.
Other folks like PVWatts (pvwatts.nrel.gov) which is a good tool, but a little more obtuse to use.
If posts on this board are any indication, solar installers are FAR LESS RELIABLE than even the cheapest commodity solar panel. Judging from the posts, most installers don't even last 5yrs on average -- with a few notable exceptions. Especially in hot solar markets like CA.
Given the crazy PoCo pricing structure in CA, and state rebates, you should look into storage as well. It might not be cost effective (still early days) but some folks in CA are getting 50% rebates on storage from their PoCo (I believe).Comment
-
The single best thing you can do to get a safe, fit for purpose and cost effective system is to educate yourself on the following : What electricity is, how your use it, how much you pay for it, how you can use less of it, how much annual PV generation is likely at your site and for what cost, and who the most reliable vendors in your area for starters..
Start your self education by buying and reading "Solar Power Your Home for Dummies", then get familiar with PVWatts as JSchnee21 writes. Read the help screens first and do a few runs. Use a 10% system loss factor a 10 % rather than the 14 % default.
After that, come back here and fill in any knowledge gaps created by your self education. Your questions will be better as will the answers you get back.
You are considering a major investment and too some degree, some lifestyle changes. From your questions so far, it looks, to me anyway, that you need more information and knowledge to make intelligent decisions. Spend ~ 20 bucks on the book, and a few hours reading it and a couple hours with PVWatts..
What's your zip ?Comment
-
If you can get the power you need on your roof using the Q cells, then use them. Premium panels really only make sense when you don't have the roof space available for lower efficiency panels.
Comment
-
And even with limited space for an array, since the usual goal, rather than solar for its own sake, is to provide the lowest long term cost of providing electricity by the most cost effective mix of conservation/use reduction, conventional methods (grid power), and PV, a usually ignored option is to go with a smaller STC wattage array , but pay a lot less for it, both for the smaller wattage array and a lower cost/watt, and meet any shortfall in desired output by other methods such as conservation, or simply turning stuff off which, on a cost to reduce the load basis is usually more cost effective than just about any PV, which is usually about the most expensive way to meet electrical demand.Comment
-
I've been using Q-Cells as one of my primary brands for years now and never a problem. About the best value I know of. Panels are pretty much a commodity as far as I'm concerned. You can dis on the Asians for undercutting the West on price, but any country that abuses the power to print money for free (including the US and Euro) is at fault for much of the global economic problems I say. Anyway, about the only differentiation I make between PV panel brands is whether their cable leads are long enough to support skip-wiring. I went around talking to PV manufacturers at the 2016 Intersolar conference and Q-cells is the only brand whose people even understood the concept.
All the manufacturers hassle you when trying to get them to honor the warranty. A 25 year warranty is a stupid thing to do in a world of electronics where the standard is 1 year. The PV industry does the 25 year warranty because we have to convince the customers that this is a good long term investment, and it is, and panels will go more like 50 years - but don't expect manufacturers to honor it easily. In fact, the little trouble I've had with PV quality is with the US makers Suniva and SolarWorld. They both have poor product imho because they can't compete on price and have to cut corners on quality.BSEE, R11, NABCEP, Chevy BoltEV, >3000kW installedComment
-
I have 48X300 watt Hanwah/Qcells and i cant say anything bad about them. They are wired to 4 midnight solar charge controllers (12 panels to each controller), a 48 volt 1500 A/H battery and 2x8048 Outback radians. I got them for 180.00/panel. They work like champs
Comment
-
I have 63 Hanwha Q CELLS Q.PEAK DUO-G5 320 with Solaredge P320 optimizers connected to 3 SE6000 inverters. I was initially going to go with LG Neons but the day before I signed paperwork the solar installation company called me and said these new panels will be available soon and asked if I would want an proposal with those instead at the same price point. I said sure and also asked for a proposal with the same power output estimate no matter the price point for comparison.
In the end I went with the Hanwha Q Cell panels, I was impressed with the 6 bus bars compared to standard panels (I believe the LG has 12 bars or wires on them but not 100% sure at this point - its been 8 months since I last researched) but I have been very happy with the system. Keeping the price the same, I got more output with the Hanwha system due to being able to install more panels. A few things that heavily influenced my decision as well was the panels 19% efficiency, 2% output deterioration on year 1 and then .54% a year after that. With the 25 year linear warranty, even at the end of the warranty period the panels should be making 85% or more of their original output.
I didn't see a reason to go with a more expensive panel - I would have been gaining only a name for the most part. Unlike a car next to no one else would even know a cheap cheap cheap panel VS the most expensive panel that you could find. If you have the space, from my understanding don't worry about efficiency but instead focus on some of the other important specs.Comment
Comment