Connecticut looking to end net metering.

[BFW577]

Screenshot_20180412-095028_Chrome.jpg

This is most likely going to pass and put a full end to standard net metering in CT. I would guess existing net meter customers would be grandfathered in. Wouldnt the new options require extensive electrical work with 2 meters?


Sorry for the picture. The forum wouldn't let me put the text in for some reason.

For more info search sb 9 CT.

[Sunking]

About time to put to death to Net Metering.

[Kingram]

Yep , they ended net metering here in Arizona (APS) for new Solar customers after August 1st 2017.

[J.P.M.]

About time to put to death to Net Metering.

Two possible benefits among many:

1.) PV will now either grow up and get competitive or die.
2.) People who are actually serious about reducing their electric bills will begin to see the real cost effectiveness of conservation without their vision being blocked by peddlers who make money with less cost effective alternates such as PV.

[JSchnee21]

I beg to differ. While I realize POCO's don't like net metering, solar is only just barely becoming cost effective, on the East Coast at least, and that's with Net Meter and SRECs or other incentives. "Thanks" for fracking my electrical costs have gone down every year for the past 10 years. My generation cost is only ~7 cents. With distribution and other taxes and such, 12-14 cents per kWH is common.

While equipment costs have been dropping, labor has not. Many new solar customers on the board still seem to be paying at least $3 per Watt installed before incentives. In my own case with the Federal deduction, decent SREC's (NJ), and Net Metering my break even is still approx 7 to 8 years -- assuming I don't more first. If states end Net Metering without paying better export rates, solar will die a rapid death. Enthusiasts may buy battery storage systems which only serve to further increase the price per watt, but the average Joe will either punt or continue to get duped into signing up for a Lease or PPA.

[Sunking]

Two possible benefits among many:

1.) PV will now either grow up and get competitive or die.
2.) People who are actually serious about reducing their electric bills will begin to see the real cost effectiveness of conservation without their vision being blocked by peddlers who make money with less cost effective alternates such as PV.

JPM you know my objections and my comments are not directed at you or anyone. Only speaking to those who take offense.

People who have grid tied solar do not need or require any financial assistance or incentives. It is welfare for the rich. The subsidies come from the people who cannot afford it. It is paid with hidden taxes buried in utility rates and local taxes with full knowledge and blessing of goberment. The poor are paying for it.

Utilities do not need the power, and not in the biz to give product away. Try going to your boss and tell than they have to sell their product for the same price they paid for it. At a minimum you will be laughed at, or at worse loose your job because you are a moron.

I am fine with solar. Just pay for it yourself, and accept wholesale prices like any COOP Generator has to accept. That is how any biz works.

[J.P.M.]

JPM you know my objections and my comments are not directed at you or anyone. Only speaking to those who take offense.

People who have grid tied solar do not need or require any financial assistance or incentives. It is welfare for the rich. The subsidies come from the people who cannot afford it. It is paid with hidden taxes buried in utility rates and local taxes with full knowledge and blessing of goberment. The poor are paying for it.

Utilities do not need the power, and not in the biz to give product away. Try going to your boss and tell than they have to sell their product for the same price they paid for it. At a minimum you will be laughed at, or at worse loose your job because you are a moron.

I am fine with solar. Just pay for it yourself, and accept wholesale prices like any COOP Generator has to accept. That is how any biz works.

Opinions being like noses with everyone having one, I never took your comments as being directed at me, but still OK if they were.

I'd generally agree that residential PV incentives promulgated through the tax code do the most good for those who, in general, can afford to pay the most for electricity - and are a form of what I've called white collar welfare. I've also and pretty much always been of the opinion that NEM schemes are a terrible way to run a business.

Furthermore, just like trade tariffs, I don't believe subsidies help anyone or anything, particularly an industry (PV in this case) to mature and become self reliant, except those who can make money by conning the ignorant.

The utilities do not need the power, but that's not the point. They'll always get the power they need. That's what they do. Otherwise, they go out of business.

Not to sound like a tree hugger, but the planet needs the clean power. If it can compete with other forms of energy, it will find a place. If it can't, then maybe it shouldn't be around in the first place.

That the R.E. industries and backers cannot or have not yet found a way to contribute more to the clean power need in an efficient and cost competitive way without the need to resort to fuzzy economics or appeals to good will, or at least justifying their arguments using more mainstream accepted ways of justifying costs is something I blame on subsidies that allow R.E. to remain in stunted adolescence.

To those who cry about oil/gas/nuke subsidies I say grow up, get a sack, take the bull by the tail and face the situation squarely, and accept the reality that life just ain't fair.

Then - work to change it.

Think about it. If R.E. is as good as all the treehuggers say it is, it ought to be a no brainer and beat the snot out of fossil fuels out of the gate without subsidies. If it can't, then either it doesn't have the brainpower to develop and do so, or it's not possible to do so economically at this time without subsidies - with the subsidies being what allows things to remain stagnant and a few in the industry getting over like fat rats in a cheese factory.

The industry needs to take the tougher non subsidy high road and mature on its own without subsidies. Then, turn the non subsidy argument around and onto any business that takes any subsidies. The R.E. industry will be better off for having done so, as will the planet.

[discodanman45]

I agree that subsidies should not drive business, but I am taking advantage of them in California. I bought a Chevy Bolt last year for $36,000. I got a $7500 Federal Credit, $2500 California Rebate, $3000 Valley Air Pollution District Rebate, and a $500 electric company rebate. I then installed a $700 level charger, which I got 30% of that back from the government extending another credit. With the electric EV-A plan in California my electric bill went up an average of under $50 per month. So for $600 more than my previous years electric bill I drove 28,000 miles with my electric car.

With the credits/rebate I invested in a $30,000 11.25 kW Solar Panel system. Well $21,000 after I get back my $9000 next year in taxes. In my area I can only be in NEM 2, so I have to pay about $0.02 per kWh that I pull from the grid. However, the EV-A plan with PG&E you can take advantage of. During peak hours they charge me $0.45 per kWh during the summer, but I can get a $0.45 credit if I feed the grid at that time. So I can cool the house to a colder temperature before 3 PM and feed the grid to get my high value credits. I can then charge my car for $0.12 between 11 am and 7 PM. With my 11.25 kWh system I can power my 3100 sq ft house in a climate that reaches above 110 degrees, power my EV that goes about 30,000 miles a year, and will still have a surplus of credits.

The reason I can do this is my household has two good incomes and we can take advantage of these subsidies for above the middle class. The tax credits are completely for the wealthy and should be rebates if they wanted these subsidies to be fair. Would I have bought an EV without the $13,500 in rebates? The answer is absolutely not. Would I have bought solar panels without the 30% credit? Probably not. With the EV-A rates I will have my system paid off within 4 years, thanks to taxpayers. Some people probably think I am a hippy for doing what I did the past year, but it was completely a monetarily decision.

[Sunking]

I agree that subsidies should not drive business, but I am taking advantage of them in California.

Ever wonder why many states charge less than 10-cents per Kwh and the more you use, the lower the rate gets. Ever wonder why companies and the working class are leaving CA in droves? Energy is dirt cheap. Heck some states do not even have income tax.

[J.P.M.]

I agree that subsidies should not drive business, but I am taking advantage of them in California. I bought a Chevy Bolt last year for $36,000. I got a $7500 Federal Credit, $2500 California Rebate, $3000 Valley Air Pollution District Rebate, and a $500 electric company rebate. I then installed a $700 level charger, which I got 30% of that back from the government extending another credit. With the electric EV-A plan in California my electric bill went up an average of under $50 per month. So for $600 more than my previous years electric bill I drove 28,000 miles with my electric car.

With the credits/rebate I invested in a $30,000 11.25 kW Solar Panel system. Well $21,000 after I get back my $9000 next year in taxes. In my area I can only be in NEM 2, so I have to pay about $0.02 per kWh that I pull from the grid. However, the EV-A plan with PG&E you can take advantage of. During peak hours they charge me $0.45 per kWh during the summer, but I can get a $0.45 credit if I feed the grid at that time. So I can cool the house to a colder temperature before 3 PM and feed the grid to get my high value credits. I can then charge my car for $0.12 between 11 am and 7 PM. With my 11.25 kWh system I can power my 3100 sq ft house in a climate that reaches above 110 degrees, power my EV that goes about 30,000 miles a year, and will still have a surplus of credits.

The reason I can do this is my household has two good incomes and we can take advantage of these subsidies for above the middle class. The tax credits are completely for the wealthy and should be rebates if they wanted these subsidies to be fair. Would I have bought an EV without the $13,500 in rebates? The answer is absolutely not. Would I have bought solar panels without the 30% credit? Probably not. With the EV-A rates I will have my system paid off within 4 years, thanks to taxpayers. Some people probably think I am a hippy for doing what I did the past year, but it was completely a monetarily decision.

I don't know of anyone, me included (and near the front of the line), rich or poor who knowingly leaves money on the table.

That's a different conversation than ethical questions of putting taxpayer money on the table for use by mostly well heeled folks who are mostly profligate energy users in the first place.

I turned a tidy profit on Sunpower stock a few years ago with the stock price run up coming mostly from the hype and B.S. S.P. used to sell product to the solar ignorant.

Added to that, I still took the tax credit for the Sunpower array on my roof and don't feel guilty about it.

[J.P.M.]

Ever wonder why many states charge less than 10-cents per Kwh and the more you use, the lower the rate gets. Ever wonder why companies and the working class are leaving CA in droves? Energy is dirt cheap. Heck some states do not even have income tax.

And more than a few of those places are known as flyover states. Ever wonder why they got that name ? Bet you know.

Ever wonder why people pay so much to live in places like CA, NY, MA, etc. ?

(hint: one reason: They don't like living in places where the average person owes more to their taxidermist than they owe to their dentist.)

Pay your money, take your choice.

[bcroe]

Ever wonder why people pay so much to live in places like CA, NY, MA, etc. ?

I don't know if they were born there, or just want something I don't. The price is high,
and its a lot more than money. Bruce Roe

[peakbagger]

The problem with all these generous rebates and incentives for solar is that the vast majority of them are paid for by the ratepayers who cant afford or don't have the site for solar. I saw a study that in Mass, the average power bill will be going up 30% with the generation side of the bill held flat. The increase is mostly just to pay for all the generous subsidies being given out. The standard observation in Mass (and formerly in Germany) is if someone isn't paying for solar for their home or business they are paying for their neighbor to do so.

[J.P.M.]

I don't know if they were born there, or just want something I don't. The price is high,
and its a lot more than money. Bruce Roe

Off topic so everyone please skip/ignore as your needs dictate:

Bruce: For you, the price is high. For others, maybe not. My point, or at least one of them is taken from what may be a bit less parochial perspective. That is, whatever the cost is, or actually, what it's perceived to be, is a matter for the individual to figure out and then make choices.

You may think living in a certain place is not for you. Amen and hail the freedom to learn, know and choose. Others may see different priorities in their choices.

I've spent a fair amount of time traveling and some working in your area. It's lovely with nice folks. I'll be spending a few weeks in the Midwest next month, about 10 days of it in non Chicagoland IL. But I'd not be a fit there as a permanent resident.

My life in Western NY was rich with friends and some of the nicest folks on earth, but for me the Buffalo winters were like a 6+ month war with the elements every year.

On balance, for me only, my perception is that life is much better here in the land of fruits and nuts, even if there is a higher percentage of assholes here (which I'm pretty good at ignoring) - but probably lower than in LA. The weather here - a bit north of San Diego - is about as good as it gets (my perception) and my home here is full of WNY friends in the winter who seem to agree with me on that. Add to that, and in spite of what my current neighbors may think, my cost of living is a bit lower here than it was in NY state, particularly with respect to property and state income and local taxes.

[SunEagle]

And more than a few of those places are known as flyover states. Ever wonder why they got that name ? Bet you know.

Ever wonder why people pay so much to live in places like CA, NY, MA, etc. ?

(hint: one reason: They don't like living in places where the average person owes more to their taxidermist than they owe to their dentist.)

Pay your money, take your choice.

When I lived back North in NJ we use to have a saying. "The East Coast Sucks but the West Coast Blows so the pressure is equalized in the Middle".