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  • SolarCity Isn't Looking So Terrible

    I searched "solarcity" on this forum and it seems no one likes them. This is my situation.

    Looking for a new install and currently I am still researching of a 11.7kw system (max before I have to increase home owner insurance). .

    A local installer will be using polycrystalline 270w Chinese panels(still haven't got the brand yet) for 2.75/w installed. The Inverter will end up being the Sunny Boy-US x2. I have tile roof and he claims that it's more expensive than shingles, which would of cost me 2.42/watt installed.
    I find their pricing to be decent, however I asked them today about monocystalline panels and he claims that these are terrible panels for FL weather due to heat..that they will burn up..and if they were better then they will be using them. After hours of online research, I have heard no such thing..and the company got pretty defensive about it. I asked for higher Watt panels and he said "well you want standard size panels, we can get you 300 watt panels but they are not standard size".

    Reason why I am looking into monocystalline is because it's more aesthetic pleasing to me. Also even though I have plenty of roof space, much of the roof space isn't ideal for solar positioning. I also want to minimize the amount of panels hence I would like higher efficiency panels. So this company pretty much told me if I want monos, I should go with someone else.

    SolarCity has the new low profile Panasonic 325w panels. They quoted me 3.1/watt installed. The inverter however is a string inverter.

    I will be paying cash.

    I'll be getting a third quote later, but so far the local company is upselling too much and I think giving out the wrong information. They have perfect reviews on google so I'm not sure why I am having such a difficult time with them. Perhaps I do too much research....
    Last edited by Singuy; 08-15-2017, 08:51 PM.

  • #2
    Are your costs per watt after incentives?
    Are you looking for mono black on black modules or just mono?
    OutBack FP1 w/ CS6P-250P http://bit.ly/1Sg5VNH

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    • #3
      These are pre-tax credit prices. I am looking for highest efficiency dark panels. The solarcity panels with that flush install really fits the bill. They are however, more expensive. Their inverters are probably inferior as well. Their warranty is 20 years bumper to bumper..which is way more than the local company.

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      • #4
        Originally posted by Singuy View Post
        These are pre-tax credit prices. I am looking for highest efficiency dark panels. The solarcity panels with that flush install really fits the bill. They are however, more expensive. Their inverters are probably inferior as well. Their warranty is 20 years bumper to bumper..which is way more than the local company.
        Black on black are lower efficiency than black on white mono.
        also the Solarcity flush install is going to cut efficiency in the F.L heat as well.
        OutBack FP1 w/ CS6P-250P http://bit.ly/1Sg5VNH

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        • #5
          Originally posted by Singuy View Post
          These are pre-tax credit prices. I am looking for highest efficiency dark panels. The solarcity panels with that flush install really fits the bill. They are however, more expensive. Their inverters are probably inferior as well. Their warranty is 20 years bumper to bumper..which is way more than the local company.
          what string inverter SC is proposing? I don't think they make one themselves. BTW, SMA Sunny Boy is string inverter as well.

          What issues do you have with your roof which are not ideal for solar? Usually string inverters are considered when your strings stay evenly irradiated throughout day/seasons. If this is not the case I'd suggest to look at Solar Edge products.

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          • #6
            Read "Solar power Your Home for Dummies". You need an education.

            Go with SolarCity if you choose, but FWIW, after being the guy in my HOA that's reviewed/monitored all the solar jobs for the last 9 years or so, I've found them to be about the worst bottom feeders of the lot. Knowing what I know from seeing their work and how they treat/lie to customers, and being a retired P.E., I wouldn't let them on my property.

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            • #7
              Originally posted by J.P.M. View Post
              Read "Solar power Your Home for Dummies". You need an education.

              Go with SolarCity if you choose, but FWIW, after being the guy in my HOA that's reviewed/monitored all the solar jobs for the last 9 years or so, I've found them to be about the worst bottom feeders of the lot. Knowing what I know from seeing their work and how they treat/lie to customers, and being a retired P.E., I wouldn't let them on my property.
              Now is this more recent or years before? Almost all my neighbors(posted on my community facebook page) said they went with solarcity and couldn't see themselves recommending anyone else. Now I am not one who buys into the hype..and perhaps there's some fanboyism there since Tesla is associated with SC. So far their customer service at least in the pre-sale area has been better. I'll definitely see as I move forward to sniff out any BS.

              What I can't stand are people who up-sales their products and trashing other companies and other installers at the same time. I feel this is rather distasteful. Fighting me on the whole monocrystalline myth about it "burning up" in FL without a source also puts a bad taste in my mouth..and this is our highest rated local installer in Orlando FL.

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              • #8
                Originally posted by max2k View Post

                what string inverter SC is proposing? I don't think they make one themselves. BTW, SMA Sunny Boy is string inverter as well.

                What issues do you have with your roof which are not ideal for solar? Usually string inverters are considered when your strings stay evenly irradiated throughout day/seasons. If this is not the case I'd suggest to look at Solar Edge products.
                The best part of my roof is facing South East. Also I would like for most panels to be behind the house, in which one side of the roof can only hold 16 panels or so. The rest of my roof are either facing north or north west.

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                • #9
                  Originally posted by Singuy View Post

                  The best part of my roof is facing South East. Also I would like for most panels to be behind the house, in which one side of the roof can only hold 16 panels or so. The rest of my roof are either facing north or north west.
                  You need to do a little more research- go PvWatts and enter your system data there to see what you can get. If your strings are going to be located on different sides of the roof create individual model for each of them on PVWatts and then add up their production numbers yourself

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                  • #10
                    Panasonic HIT panels (N330) for example have the world's best thermal efficiency rating, so their production will degrade the least per degree centigrade rise. http://business.panasonic.com/VBHN330SA16.html
                    As well as a 25yr defect warranty and the best 25yr production warranty -- though panel warranty claims are notoriously hard to ever make good on.

                    But you will pay a premium for these panels -- they are roughly $1.00 per Watt for the panel alone. They only come in black (HIT "monocrystalline") on a white back sheet with a black frame. They are 96-cell with a higher than normal Vmp so you'll have to use either a string inverter OR SolarEdge DC Optimizer system (no micros). BUT, just because the Panasonic panels are more efficient and have better thermal coefficients, this added production may or may not (probably not) be enough to offset their higher install cost in the long run.

                    Given that it sounds like you will have three separate panel orientations (if you cover three faces of your roof), the SolarEdge system could be a good choice. Otherwise these will have to be separated into three separate strings into one or more string inverters. Both options are definitely doable. But for my money I prefer the panel level optimization and monitoring I get with my Panasonic / SE system here in NJ. And SE gives you the added benefit of a robust panel level rapid shutdown solution for NEC 2014/12017.

                    For a Panasonic / SolarEdge system you're going to be closer to $3.00 per watt -- so obviously more expensive than your current offers. But thee should be lots of reputable, well regarded local installers in Florida to choose. Check out Energy Sage dot com.

                    Butch is exactly right, ideally you'd want an air gap between your roof and the panels to keep their the panel temps down as well. And critter guards/screens to keep the vermin from nesting under your panels and chewing the wires.

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                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Singuy View Post

                      Now is this more recent or years before? Almost all my neighbors(posted on my community facebook page) said they went with solarcity and couldn't see themselves recommending anyone else. Now I am not one who buys into the hype..and perhaps there's some fanboyism there since Tesla is associated with SC. So far their customer service at least in the pre-sale area has been better. I'll definitely see as I move forward to sniff out any BS.

                      What I can't stand are people who up-sales their products and trashing other companies and other installers at the same time. I feel this is rather distasteful. Fighting me on the whole monocrystalline myth about it "burning up" in FL without a source also puts a bad taste in my mouth..and this is our highest rated local installer in Orlando FL.
                      Last install was ~ 4 months ago. SolarCity installs have tapered off here over the last 6 months - 1 year or so. I think people are starting to wise up to what I've seen as the SC con. Only took 10 years.

                      Given the level of solar ignorance coupled with most folks financial ignorance, I'm not sure how much I'd use what amounts to poorly informed gossip from neighbors to influence my decision making.

                      The more informed you get, the better your decisions will be. Start by reading the book. Then, as others have suggested, PVWatts. Read the help screens on that site before you do any runs.

                      A major decision like adding PV goes better with more knowledge.

                      Take what you want of the above. Scrap the rest.

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                      • #12
                        Your local installer is pushing the 270W panels because he bought a metric $hit-ton of them for bargain basement prices, but gets to charge you full price for them. Of course he's going to invent something about why you can't have another panel - you're cutting into his profits. If the choice was only between SC and this joker, definitely choose SC.

                        This business practice of your local installer is probably one of many that will put them out of business well before you're trying to contact someone about warranty work, which IMHO is SC's strong suit - they'll more than likely be around in some form or another for many years to come.

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                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Spektre View Post
                          Your local installer is pushing the 270W panels because he bought a metric $hit-ton of them for bargain basement prices, but gets to charge you full price for them. Of course he's going to invent something about why you can't have another panel - you're cutting into his profits. If the choice was only between SC and this joker, definitely choose SC.

                          This business practice of your local installer is probably one of many that will put them out of business well before you're trying to contact someone about warranty work, which IMHO is SC's strong suit - they'll more than likely be around in some form or another for many years to come.
                          I don't necessarily see that 'business practice' as wrong but usually installers buy the panels from their distributors who carry multiple brands/types. Having inventory on your own is very risky and expensive. The only problem I see is they are not willing to replace panels for the OP with whatever he wants. Somehow in this thread I see the SC presented in the opposite light to their usual way of doing business. Either they changed their ways and I'm too old to believe in fairy tales or else.

                          Why OP doesn't try few more local companies? Having only 2 quotes is not actually representative. When I was shopping I contacted at least 5 companies ultimately dropping all of them at the end. SC was one of the 5 and left the worst aftertaste.

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                          • #14
                            Originally posted by max2k View Post

                            I don't necessarily see that 'business practice' as wrong but usually installers buy the panels from their distributors who carry multiple brands/types. Having inventory on your own is very risky and expensive. The only problem I see is they are not willing to replace panels for the OP with whatever he wants. Somehow in this thread I see the SC presented in the opposite light to their usual way of doing business. Either they changed their ways and I'm too old to believe in fairy tales or else.

                            Why OP doesn't try few more local companies? Having only 2 quotes is not actually representative. When I was shopping I contacted at least 5 companies ultimately dropping all of them at the end. SC was one of the 5 and left the worst aftertaste.
                            I wasn't suggesting that the practice of a business buying a large quantity of panels for cheap and using them for your standard installs is wrong - the part that is clearly wrong is inventing misinformation about why mono panels are inferior in Florida so you can push said panels.

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                            • #15
                              It sounds like your local installer considers the 65" x 40" panels to be 'standard size', and ergo all others would be non-standard size, thus his reluctance to go to higher wattage (generally 77" x 40"). But I have no idea where he got the thinking of mono panels 'burning up' more so than poly - unless he just has a better margin on the poly panels as others have suggested. Have you asked him why the mono panels are burning up? - and whose/where/when?

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