Sunpower Solar new system on house with wiring already done.

[benibarra23]

Hoping to get some feedback. I purchased a home that had a Sunpower System with 27 panels (8.8kw) already installed. The owners are taking the panels but leaving everything else. (they just purchased it last year so they want to use it on the new house). I worked out a deal with the installers to replace the panels and brackets and give me a new 25 year warranty but leave me on Teir 1 rates. Purchase price is $24,456 plus $1200 cash back. I do also qualify for the tax credit.

Is this a good deal?

[NEOH]

Are you saying you will be paying $24,456 to have 27 x 300 Watt PV Panels installed ?

You need to determine ...
1) How many KWH's will these panels generate NET (at the inverter's output) per year ?
2) What will the electric company pay you, or credit you, for that generated electricity ?
3) And finally, how many years before you save $24,000 on your electric bill ?

Have you done the math ?
Why are you investing $24,000 in PV Panels?

[ButchDeal]

I purchased a home that had a Sunpower System with 27 panels (8.8kw) already installed. The owners are taking the panels but leaving everything else.

So what are the leaving? The inverter? cables? racking?

Are they putting on the same solar modules (I assume SP 327)?
You qualify for the federal incentive but you don't mention which sate, so are their other incentives?

[benibarra23]

So what are the leaving? The inverter? cables? racking?

Are they putting on the same solar modules (I assume SP 327)?
You qualify for the federal incentive but you don't mention which sate, so are their other incentives?

They are installing 27 of the SPR-X21-345-C-AcC panels and 27 Microinverters. I get the full 30% federal tax credit. They are leaving the cables, inteverters and racking but have to replace some of the brackets because they tend to break when they remove them (according to the installer).

[benibarra23]

Are you saying you will be paying $24,456 to have 27 x 300 Watt PV Panels installed ?

You need to determine ...
1) How many KWH's will these panels generate NET (at the inverter's output) per year ?
2) What will the electric company pay you, or credit you, for that generated electricity ?
3) And finally, how many years before you save $24,000 on your electric bill ?

Have you done the math ?
Why are you investing $24,000 in PV Panels?

The panels are the SPR-X21-345-C-AcC. Yes I will get a credit back from SCE, on tier 1 which from what I read is much better than the current tier 1 they are giving on new installs.

As far as if its worth it I thought so but not sure thats why I am asking. My electric bill with a 3700 sqft house, pool and 2 Air conditioners will be over $600 a month with out solar and my payment is $135 for solar.

[benibarra23]

Also sorry about the wrong verbage. I meant to say I will be on net 1.0 metering vs the new not as good net 2.0 metering.

[J.P.M.]

The panels are the SPR-X21-345-C-AcC. Yes I will get a credit back from SCE, on tier 1 which from what I read is much better than the current tier 1 they are giving on new installs.

As far as if its worth it I thought so but not sure thats why I am asking. My electric bill with a 3700 sqft house, pool and 2 Air conditioners will be over $600 a month with out solar and my payment is $135 for solar.

Without knowing anything else, depending on orientation, expect ~ 15,000 kWh/yr. output from a 9.32 kW system.

As far as a price, are you sure that $24,456 is before tax credit and not after ? Could be before, and maybe that's a good deal, but a new 9.3 kW system w/ 345 Watt Sunpower panels complete with a ll the equipment would run something like $40K to $42 or so. $16K less for not supplying only the wiring and racking, but replacing the inverter(s) seems low. I just have a hard time getting over that much price difference for what looks like not a lot of material and labor reduction from using the remains, but I could sure be wrong.

Also, what are the micros ? They better be pretty big to match the greater panel size and amount of time that the 345's will exceed the output of most micros with the micros perhaps clipping and therefeore loosing some of the output.

I'd also make sure you confirm that you stay on what I'm assuming you call tier one but mean to say NEM 1.0. You are increasing the size of the array, but it's a small enough increase to not trigger a problem, but other changes might. Have you contacted SCE or are you getting all your info from the vendor ? Maybe worth a check. Caveat Emptor.

On NEOH's questions, your $600/month, which I assume is not every month, is no help in figuring out how much a revised system will save, either in terms of near term annual savings or the net present value (NPV) of the long term savings. If a 9.3 kW system keeps you in the lowest tier (tier one 1), and you can stay on tiered rates, for $2.63 or so per Watt, that may be a decent deal. I'd just make sure you understand what everyone is telling you and it's all the truth.

Not my home, electric bill life or anything else, but you look like a prime candidate for an energy audit. regardless of what you do with the skeleton on your roof, get/do an audit and consider any recommendations that come out of it. Such savings will be more cost effective per kWh saved than any PV.

In the meantime, inform yourself for free. Download and read a free copy of "Solar Power Your Home for Dummies" from the net. or spend ~ $25 for an updated hardcopy at bookstores or Amazon.

Then, download PVWatts from NREL. Spend 20 min. reading the info/help screens and confirm an estimate of long term annual system output. After the help/i9nfo screen read, it's a steep learning curve and meant for reasonably intelligent consumers who may not be super technically oriented.

Knowledge is power. get some of the first and use it and use it to explore your options.

Good luck.

[jasonvr]

The installer has no ability to keep you on NEM1.0. Only SCE can do that. Are you sure SCE will allow you to stay? The NEM1.0 period ended June 30. The NEM agreement the current owners signed has this clause:
3.7 Customer shall not add generation capacity in excess of the ratings set forth in Sections 2.6
and 2.7 of this Agreement, or otherwise modify the Generating Facility without the prior written
permission of SCE.

2.6 and 2.7 are the nameplate sizes. By increasing the panel size, you are increasing the nameplate size and running afoul of of this provision. Unless SCE explicitly gave you approval (and I can't see why they would as it isn't in their interest), you aren't going to be on NEM1.0 (though I seem to remember talk of a buffer of allowable size increase that allows you to stay on NEM1.0, but I can't find it in my NEM agreement)

[benibarra23]

The installer has no ability to keep you on NEM1.0. Only SCE can do that. Are you sure SCE will allow you to stay? The NEM1.0 period ended June 30. The NEM agreement the current owners signed has this clause:
3.7 Customer shall not add generation capacity in excess of the ratings set forth in Sections 2.6
and 2.7 of this Agreement, or otherwise modify the Generating Facility without the prior written
permission of SCE.

2.6 and 2.7 are the nameplate sizes. By increasing the panel size, you are increasing the nameplate size and running afoul of of this provision. Unless SCE explicitly gave you approval (and I can't see why they would as it isn't in their interest), you aren't going to be on NEM1.0 (though I seem to remember talk of a buffer of allowable size increase that allows you to stay on NEM1.0, but I can't find it in my NEM agreement)

They are able to keep me on nem1.0 be keeping it the same size. Again this is what they told me.

[J.P.M.]

They are able to keep me on nem1.0 be keeping it the same size. Again this is what they told me.

Who is "they" ?

[max2k]

The panels are the SPR-X21-345-C-AcC. Yes I will get a credit back from SCE, on tier 1 which from what I read is much better than the current tier 1 they are giving on new installs.

As far as if its worth it I thought so but not sure thats why I am asking. My electric bill with a 3700 sqft house, pool and 2 Air conditioners will be over $600 a month with out solar and my payment is $135 for solar.

Is this $600/month with both AC on? If not please look at energy audit, that is quite a high bill for the house of that size.
Is $135/month a price of some lease or financing schema? I'd stop here and rethink the whole thing, you're trying to make decisions without having enough info. One of the options I'd exercise is to use some panels other than Sun Power. Is it possible to use previously installed inverters or are they taken by previous owners as well? If not I'd try to use them and just replace panels with some non SP brand. 27 panels x $250 = $6750 + some labor so you could be within 10K before tax credit.

[sensij]

Special condition 11(b) of the NEM tariff covers modifications. This system could be increased by up to 1 kW (AC rating) before losing NEM 1.0 status.

https://www.sce.com/NR/sc3/tm2/pdf/ce158-12.pdf

[Six4KilowWatt]

You are getting ripped off don't do it.

So let me get this straight, the micro inverters and racking is up on the roof? They need to replace a few brackets...find out what they are...chances are you can order them from an on-line seller. Buy your own panels and hire somebody to put them up...micro inverters are plug and play for the most part.

How steep is your roof? Are in you California, if so what part...I might be willing to help with labor Seriously, if it's all racked and wired, no way you should pay nearly full price...

We are here to help you get on track and not get screwed. Please don't pay these guys anywhere near that. Is this a shingle roof? Give us all the details your gonna get a way better deal if you listen to us...

[sdold]

They are installing 27 of the SPR-X21-345-C-AcC panels and 27 Microinverters.

They are installing panels and inverters, or just panels?

They are leaving the cables, inteverters and racking but

If they left the inverters there, why do they need to be installed? Did they leave them in a box in the garage?

If you are only buying panels and paying to have them installed on existing racking and connected to existing inverters, it sounds like you are paying more than you should, especially if the engineering, permitting etc. is already done.

[peakbagger]

Having completely installed a roof array on my second floor roof solo including pulling the panels up off the ground and landing them on the roof, I will say that the hardest part was finding the darn roof joists for the hardware followed by installing the rail hardware. Doing it in the summer was also a challenge as its gets hot up on the roof. In my state the utility could care less what sort of panels are connected, they strictly regulate by the installed inverter capacity and if it is compliance with UL code. Therefore I would be tempted to just install new panels myself to existing inverters and be done with it.