Sunpower Solar new system on house with wiring already done.

[J.P.M.]

I also hope your friend is saving money. I still can't stand it when a solar provider advertises ZERO money down for a system which will greatly reduce the electric bill.

They are just hoping people will go through them to get a loan to build the system but in the end takes 20 years to pay for itself. That is just wrong in my book.

Yea, it sucks, but it's no different than any number of other similar schemes based mostly and originally on the idea that fools and their money are soon parted. Buy now, pay later (and later, and later....) has been around a long time.

[SunEagle]

All I know is what he told me in a brief phone conversation. His wife deals with a lot of the house stuff so she might know more. I'm not surprised if someone can't recall how many watts a solar system that was installed months before is.

He moved into his house the first part of August so the $400 bill was probably the highest all year. I would hope he is saving money on electricity in the end. I would not be surprised if the solar company made some good money on his house.

I also hope your friend is saving money. I still can't stand it when a solar provider advertises ZERO money down for a system which will greatly reduce the electric bill.

They are just hoping people will go through them to get a loan to build the system but in the end takes 20 years to pay for itself. That is just wrong in my book.

[reader2580]

Really. He installed a pv system which costs him $100 per month yet doesn't have a clue as to how many watts it is or what type of hardware is involved.

I guess the $64k question is, Does he save any money on that $400 electric bill and does he have a clue on the system ROI?

All I know is what he told me in a brief phone conversation. His wife deals with a lot of the house stuff so she might know more. I'm not surprised if someone can't recall how many watts a solar system that was installed months before is.

He moved into his house the first part of August so the $400 bill was probably the highest all year. I would hope he is saving money on electricity in the end. I would not be surprised if the solar company made some good money on his house.

[J.P.M.]

A co-worker moved to Pheonix last year. His summer electric bill was over $400 a month and that seems to be the norm around him due to air conditioning. He had a solar system installed last fall and pays $100 a month for the system. He didn't know any details on the solar system including how many watts it is.

Now that's what I call an informed consumer. Hope he didn't lease. But, like I wrote, opinions vary. Illogic, incomplete information, energy ignorance and emotion usually rule the day.

FWIW, that $400/month probably doesn't translate to $4,800/yr. unless Phoenix has the same temps. 12 months out of the year - and they don't.

I've sort of observed that when speaking of or estimating bills, there seems to be a tendency to take the highest billing period amount and use that to imply a higher annual bill than actually incurred.

[SunEagle]

A co-worker moved to Pheonix last year. His summer electric bill was over $400 a month and that seems to be the norm around him due to air conditioning. He had a solar system installed last fall and pays $100 a month for the system. He didn't know any details on the solar system including how many watts it is.

Really. He installed a pv system which costs him $100 per month yet doesn't have a clue as to how many watts it is or what type of hardware is involved.

I guess the $64k question is, Does he save any money on that $400 electric bill and does he have a clue on the system ROI?

[reader2580]

Besides, if you've got an ~ $5,000/yr. electric bill, and something like a normal size dwelling, you're in serious need of an energy audit, not a PV system. You're living in an energy sieve.

A co-worker moved to Pheonix last year. His summer electric bill was over $400 a month and that seems to be the norm around him due to air conditioning. He had a solar system installed last fall and pays $100 a month for the system. He didn't know any details on the solar system including how many watts it is.

[SunEagle]

Where I live the standard real estate purchase offer says that anything attached to the house is sold with the house unless something is specifically excluded. Sellers are even required to leave flat panel TV mounts that are attached to walls. (The TV mount thing is because too many sellers tore up walls when removing them.) A solar system is something that would go with the house unless the seller specifically excludes the solar system.

In Minnesota water softeners generally are included in a house sale. I excluded my softener from the sale as I paid $800 for a rebuilt used water softener that would have cost $3,000 to replace. The water softener didn't add anywhere close to $3,000 in value to the house.

I would think a solar system that saves $400 a month in utility costs would add many thousands to the value of the house.

Talking to a number of Real Estate people here in Fl, they all say that a solar pv system does nothing to increase a home value. In fact they see the opposite. People just don't want some one elses pv system. Heck even the solar water heater system I have is not seen as desirable.

[J.P.M.]

I would think a solar system that saves $400 a month in utility costs would add many thousands to the value of the house.

You might think that, but opinions vary. In any situation, the value is at least hard to quantify. I'd not consider buying a home with an existing PV system, especially one that was DIY installed ( unless it was Sensij's, and then it would still be oversized for my needs). I'd also never consider a leased or PPA'd system.

As water softener value goes, so goes added value from solar arrays.

Besides, if you've got an ~ $5,000/yr. electric bill, and something like a normal size dwelling, you're in serious need of an energy audit, not a PV system. You're living in an energy sieve.

[reader2580]

Where I live the standard real estate purchase offer says that anything attached to the house is sold with the house unless something is specifically excluded. Sellers are even required to leave flat panel TV mounts that are attached to walls. (The TV mount thing is because too many sellers tore up walls when removing them.) A solar system is something that would go with the house unless the seller specifically excludes the solar system.

In Minnesota water softeners generally are included in a house sale. I excluded my softener from the sale as I paid $800 for a rebuilt used water softener that would have cost $3,000 to replace. The water softener didn't add anywhere close to $3,000 in value to the house.

I would think a solar system that saves $400 a month in utility costs would add many thousands to the value of the house.

[J.P.M.]

I would wonder why sellers took the panels with them? The panels aren't all that expensive when compared to the total cost of the system plus they probably paid to have them removed.

It may be too late, but why not pay the sellers for the panels instead of them paying to remove and move them? Even if the new panels cost you $1 a watt it seems like the total cost is pretty high.

The removed panels are Sunpower 327's. They cannot easily be purchased on their own, and anyway, not by a user. Perhaps the house seller doesn't know panels are a commodity and bought into the Sunpower hype figuring new racking, install and B.O.S could be bought/installed w/the super duper Sunpower panels for less than what in the seller's mind anyway, might be lower quality panels. Or, maybe the seller knows a PV system doesn't add much to resale value, and said , "what the hell, if it doesn't add, it probably won't detract.", and put a does not convey clause in the contract for the panels. Or, maybe the seller bought the system 5-6 yrs. ago when prices were higher and doesn't know prices have dropped. Or.......??

[cebury]

Who is "they" ?

It looks like the SCE nem1 is same as pge contract: it stays with the house, as long as its not modifiied beyond their limits.

[reader2580]

I would wonder why sellers took the panels with them? The panels aren't all that expensive when compared to the total cost of the system plus they probably paid to have them removed.

It may be too late, but why not pay the sellers for the panels instead of them paying to remove and move them? Even if the new panels cost you $1 a watt it seems like the total cost is pretty high.

[peakbagger]

Having completely installed a roof array on my second floor roof solo including pulling the panels up off the ground and landing them on the roof, I will say that the hardest part was finding the darn roof joists for the hardware followed by installing the rail hardware. Doing it in the summer was also a challenge as its gets hot up on the roof. In my state the utility could care less what sort of panels are connected, they strictly regulate by the installed inverter capacity and if it is compliance with UL code. Therefore I would be tempted to just install new panels myself to existing inverters and be done with it.

[sdold]

They are installing 27 of the SPR-X21-345-C-AcC panels and 27 Microinverters.

They are installing panels and inverters, or just panels?

They are leaving the cables, inteverters and racking but

If they left the inverters there, why do they need to be installed? Did they leave them in a box in the garage?

If you are only buying panels and paying to have them installed on existing racking and connected to existing inverters, it sounds like you are paying more than you should, especially if the engineering, permitting etc. is already done.

[Six4KilowWatt]

You are getting ripped off don't do it.

So let me get this straight, the micro inverters and racking is up on the roof? They need to replace a few brackets...find out what they are...chances are you can order them from an on-line seller. Buy your own panels and hire somebody to put them up...micro inverters are plug and play for the most part.

How steep is your roof? Are in you California, if so what part...I might be willing to help with labor Seriously, if it's all racked and wired, no way you should pay nearly full price...

We are here to help you get on track and not get screwed. Please don't pay these guys anywhere near that. Is this a shingle roof? Give us all the details your gonna get a way better deal if you listen to us...